Choosing the correct Oil for a wet-clutch Motorcycle

The following link is to the JASO list for all of the oils that currently meet the JASO MA specification. Using oils that are not JASO MA rated can lead to slipping starter clutches, and slipping transmission clutches, on wet clutch motorcycles.

The use of friction modified (modern automotive) oils can lead to accelerated transmission wear. Modern automotive oils do not have the additives that are needed for transmission gears (or for cam over shim valve trains; primarily Zinc), because those additives damage catalytic converters.

I think the link may be good even after the list is updated. [EDIT] the list is updated regularly, and he link is still good as of Aug, 2020.

PDF of JASO MA Oils

Note: The list is long, and contains brands that are not sold in the U.S.A.

More information on JASO:

If the PDF link above does not work, the current PDF can be found on the JALSO website. Look for the letters MA in their link title.

JALOS website (there are pages in english, but you have to look closely)

JASO specifications explained (click through to the second page for more information)

Note: There are oils that meet JASO MA specifications, but won't be on the JASO list because they did not seek (and pay for) certification, but did their own internal testing instead. Usually these olis will have "Meets JASO MA" somewhere on the bottle, instead of the JASO MA stamp.


[EDIT]

Some people have asked me about getting more specific information on motor oil composition. Most of what I know about oil has been gleaned from: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
The owner of the site has several technical write-ups about how oils are blended and tested. There is also information about having your used motor oil tested, which will provide you with a peek into what the internals of your engine are doing, and how well your chosen oil is performing. The results of these tests can help you dial in exactly how long you can run a particuar oil before needing to change it.


[EDIT]

Rotella T3 no longer exists. It was replaced by Rotella T Triple Protection, which has since been replaced by T4 Triple Protection.

[EDIT]
Many questions have come up recently about what weigh of oil to use. The viscocity choice has to do with the abient air temperature that you will be riding in. The charts below should guide your choice. The same information is in the service manuals and owner's manual for your machine.

 

Many including my self have been using Shell Rotella T with no issues. I have never worn out a transmission.

 

Good choice.
Rotella T (now T Triple Protection) is JASO MA certified. I've used it for 20ish years myself.

 

I use Valvoline motorcycle oil. I can get it at the local Walmart. 20w50 for Summer and 10w40 for Winter. It's readily available and seems to work good. 1st oil change with it, I noticed a big difference in clutch slippage at 8000rpm shifts. I used to have a bit of slippage at high rpm shifts but not after the 1st oil change of Valvoline motorcycle oil.

 

The clutches in our bikes are 30+ years old.

If you haven't rebuilt the clutch, the oil discussion is a moot point in regard to slippage.

ALL of our bikes SAT for some period of time; some longer than others and under different conditions. Some (very few) might have been stored with clean oil; most were parked as-is and sat there for 10, 15, 20 years or more.

Which means the oil-saturated friction plates sat half in, half out of whatever oil was in there. The half of each friction plate that was OUT of the oil dried out and became linoleum (look it up, linoleum is basically dried oil) while the other half sat there percolating in whatever nasty acids formed in the old oil.

Then along comes the proud new old XJ owner; and because he can't see the clutch, simply assumes it will be fine. And is often completely taken aback when it doesn't behave as expected. Brakes, sure; rebuilt those. Did the carbs, the valves, etc. But ignored the clutch?

Surprise, surprise. It's toast, you just can't see it. If anyone still has their original clutch, I advise you rebuild it.

But you still need to run motorcycle oil.

 

question; how does one determine if the clutch is original or not? my 30 year old bike only has 14,000 miles on the clock. no doubt it has done a lot of sitting. the clutch seems to function fine, but I have not really had any seat time on it yet, and I have not had it over about 35mph.

CN

 

If the Clutch is smooth and doesn't shutter, ... 14-grand is low miles.
But, Clutch-life depends on how the Bike was ridden before you took charge.

 

I guess the real test will be when I finally get it on the road and get it in high gear. the bike is in real nice overall condition, not too sure about when the fluids were last changed or how often, so they are all getting renewed as well.

CN

 

cyclenoob, if you haven't replaced it - assume that the clutch is original. Read the bigfitz52 post above. We're reiterating all that he already said on the topic.

 

Or, run it until it begins to slip, and then rebuild it.

The key word is "until." An original, half-petrified clutch will not last long, even if it seems to work OK initially. Even with the correct oil.

As soon as it gives any hint of slippage rebuild it before you cook the steels.

Something to keep in mind in regard to 30-year old bikes: a LOT of things, like the clutch, or the tach drive seals, or wheel bearings, etc., will work OK at first once you start riding the bike again. But they won't last long and will pop up as "problems" when in fact, they are just more easily overlooked maintenance items that needed to be dealt with.

 

Same philosophy could be applied to everyone's own body, except that you can't do any part replacement, well, some are possible, but most aren't.

 

sounds like good advice, thanks. I have only had the bike since late august and in that time it has been doing what it has done most of it's life. I probably won't get to ride it till next spring at this point.

thanks for the heads up about "cooking the steels". not having much motorcycle experience, I would not have thought of that. I am guessing that the "steels" are the discs between the clutch discs? and are not generally replaced? also, what is a normal lifespan for a clutch set? assuming the bike wasn't treated badly and driven "normally", how many miles do they last?

CN

 

Yes, by "steels" I meant the plain plates. Once the clutch starts to slip, they can quickly become overheated, burnt blue and warp.

Generally speaking, unless it's a high-mileage bike, they can be re-used after a little cleanup with Scotchbrite. But not if they're burnt blue or warped.

Again, mileage has nothing to do with the functionality of your 30-year old clutch. AGE is what will have done it in, like all of mine and everyone else's too (whether they know it or not, YET.)

If it weren't for the "sitting for years/turning into linoleum" thing, clutch life can range anywhere from 10,000 miles (or even less) to over 20,000 miles depending on how the bike was ridden.

But all the sitting has negated that.

 

DO I understand that it would be better to drain the engine oil before a long storage? Or change it once a year and crank the engine every month or so?

 

Better to store with fresh oil in it. No need to change once a year, spinning the motor over occasionally (without introducing fuel) is OK; however if left sitting long enough the friction plates in the wet clutch will suffer.

Most of our bikes however, were NOT "stored carefully." Most just got shoved in a corner of the garage (or yard) and forgot about, with whatever oil (and gas) was in them when they ran last.

Most people don't "properly store" bikes for 20+ years though. A couple of years layup won't murder your clutch.

 

Makes plenty of sense.

 

understood. I don't plan to ride my bike hard either, definitely an "easy rider" here. at any rate, I am certain it is fine for now. new brakes and brake lines are at the top of the list right now.

CN

 

Like I said, it will work for a while but will eventually start slipping; when it does it's simply rebuild time. When it does happen, taking care of it immediately will make it less expensive (if you can re-use the plain plates.)

Most "latent" problems such as the ones I mentioned will surface within a couple thousand miles of putting the bike back in service, or less. Tach drive seals (mechanical tach bikes only) seem to last about 200 miles of renewed use before biting it. Wheel bearings will last until the 30-year old jellied grease fails.

 

great advice to be sure.

CN

 

Synthetic oils not labeled "Resource conserving" or energy conserving are okay to use on set clutch bikes. Just look at the back of the oil container where the ratings are, bottom of the circle.

 

when you talk about Shell Rotella® T Triple Protection engine oil are you talking about the Heavy Duty Diesel oil?
that would save me a lot of cash.

 

Yes, the Rotella T 15W 40. Or you can also use the Chevron Delo 400 15w-40 or Mobil Delvac 1300 15W-40. I use the Shell Rotella T, never tried the others two.

 

Mobil Delvac 1300 15W-40, for me. three bikes and a cub cadet

 

Interesting post. I was just talking with a guy who takes care of 65 motorcycles with a motorcycle training school in Ottawa. He had done a bunch of research on oil as, by the nature of the business, there are beginners on the motorcycles, and beginners are hard on clutches.

He had decided on Valvoline ATV 10/40 oil, one of the reasons was that it contains Zinc (as K-moe mentions), it also contains Phosphorous (which fouls catalytic converters as K-Moe also mentions). He spoke with the reps at Valvoline, and apparently they had to call it ATV oil for this reason (so they would not get complaints about it fouling catalytic converters, works great in bikes with out cat conv's such as our old rides).

The guy I spoke with put it to the test. Half of his bikes received Valvoline ATV oil, the other half did not. After two years of this, he had never had a problem with the bikes that were filled with the ATV oil. He's now on year 5 and where this was a chronic problem before, he rarely has to change clutch plates any more.

This oil is a little pricey and hard to find in my area, but it is available.

 

when you say hard to find you mean the atv oil?
I went with Shell Rotella T its just under 14$ a gallon the motorcycle oil with the pritty picture of a motor cycle on it is $8.25 a quart. with a gallonof Shell Rotella T i get an oil filter change and an oil change. with the quart its 20$ an oil change 33$ vs 14$. not a hard choice where both oils are jaso rated for motorcycles. you do need to be carfull of other brands of diesel oils they are jaso rated but not for motor cycles

 

Here's a quote "Shell Rotella T is formulated to help maintain the efficiency of the latest vehicle-emissions technologies."

What this means is that it has reduced zinc and phosphorous (as it clogs catalytic converters) amongst a few other things. i.e. the "good stuff" has been removed to meet emission requirements.

Valvoline ATV 10w 40 is a non-synthetic oil that meets the JASO MA specs AND it contains zinc and phosphorous (the "good stuff" added, or left in). Great mixture for wet clutch applications, particularly in older mc's.

The motorcycle training school's test wasn't a scientifically controlled thing, but it was enough to convince me. A quick read through the Valvoline website and you can read through the lines...called ATV (as ATVs are off road vehicles with different emission requirements), but meant for any wet clutch application as long as it doesn't have a catalytic converter

It's about $7 a liter around here (about $25 per US gallon). Just a personal choice I thought I'd share here.

 

well i chose Mobil Delvac 1300 because it comes in a black jug and has a real nice spout. hows that for scientific

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that without looking at an oil analysis.

Here is a thread with analysis results from just a few days ago.

Yes there is less ZDDP than in the past (this is true of all diesel oils for roadgoing use), but it is still more than is in the typical in non-diesel, non-synthetic automotive (and motorcycle) oils. Shear stability is another factor that comes into play. Rotella T, and other diesel oils, have a much higher resistance to molecular shearing (which is a very good thing for our transmissions).

I've read neumerous reports that the Valvoline ATV oil is very prone to shear out of grade in a shared sump engine long before the next oil change is due (this may be due to the fact that the typical ATV does not roll down the highway at 70 MPH all day, so there would be less shearing expected in the intended application).

 

Good point K-Moe.

The motorcycle training school would be slow speed riding and limited to a few hours/day/bike.

 

I primarily use Yamalube 10w-40 in all my bikes. Never had a problem.

Dave Fox

 

I am going to add some information about gear oil for the final drive. The service manual specifies GL-4 for a very specific reason, GL_5 gear oils contain sulfur additives that are great for protecting steel gears, but eat gold-colored metal parts (copper, brass, zinc). For years I have simply gone with that recommendation, but everything is temporary.

I was entirely unaware that the additives in GL-5 gear oil have changed (so unaware that I didn't realize the changes happened about 20 years ago). The sulphur additives that are in the current crop of GL-5 gear oils are buffered, and will not damage the gold-colored parts in gearboxes and differentials, so go ahead and use a GL-5 oil.

The following paper is geared (lol) to Corvair owners (who's transmissions have bronze synchronizers, and a transmission and differential that share the same housing), but the information therin is accurate and the first few paragraphs provide an easy-to-read explanation. http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf

Note that the reason for not using GL-5 in the corvair is specific to the synchronizer wear caused by the protective layer formed by the additives peeling away the underlying bronze when under load. The XJ final drive has all steel gears, so that is not something that can occur in our machines.

 

Thanks K-moe. Your "20 years behind" is still light years ahead!!
You are indeed the lube guru. That final drive oil with LSD (not the drug) additive was a GL-5, so I had additional concerns, which now have been aleived (again, not the drug)

 

Linked for posterity. This is still a good and relevant article.

http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/powersports-motor-oil-revised-archived.66638/

Thanks to slackard for recovering it from the nether.

 

Nope. I know exactly what I'm doing, and why I'm doing it.
Super Tech oil is great to use in a watercooled engine. I use it in my Truck. But it isn't going in my aircooled, shim-over-bucket, motorcycle engine.
None of the oils that I use or recommend are anywhere near being expensive (though I do miss the days of 79¢ quarts of Valvoline).

 

I am having a problem with my '85 XJ700. I just bought it 3 weeks ago and it has been running great. I decided to change the oil. I used Victory 20W-40 Semi-Synthetic. The bike now runs like crap. It shakes at low RPM when I get on the throttle. The bike acts like a big rig when the clutch is slipping ( I used to drive semis). I am going to use the Rotella and see what happens. What do you all think?

 

Synthetic oils are generally not recommended for our motorcycles, is that Victory oil made for automotive use or motorcycles?

I would drain out that synthetic oil and replace it with the Rotella. Make sure you put the correct amount in the engine, fill till you have a small bubble at the top of the window on your clutch cover bike on center stand.

 

+1 ^.

@k-moe: There are still places that sell a quart for $.79. It ain't worth a damn tho.

Gary H.

 

Got the oil at the closest motorcycle shop to my house. It's made for Victory motorcycles. It says on the bottle okay for clutches. But that may be for newer clutches. I doubt the clutch in this bike has been changed. I got the oil changed, but it's getting late and 6am comes fast. I will try it out tomorrow and reply with results.

 

However I didn't get the Rotella. I bought Motorcraft 15W-40 for Diesel trucks because it specifically says "not for use in gasoline engines with catayltic converters." From a previous post this means the zinc and phosphorus has not been taken out of the oil, which should be good for the clutch. Time will tell.

 

The zinc and phosphorous (ZDDP) isn't for the clutch, it's for the valvetrain and gearbox. The clutch problems occur when using oils with friction modifiers. The Motorcraft oil you chose is equivalent to the Rotella (perhaps a bit better in the ZDDP content), and will be more than fine to use. You may want to do short term "flush" with a cheap dino oli to help get rid of any remaining synthetic.

 

Sorry for the delay in replying. Bike is running much better. I have put 100 miles since changing the oil. I will change it again this weekend. Hopefully all the synthetic oil will get flushed out by then.

Where can I get an aftermarket speedometer that will match up with the original mounting bracket?

 

PM user Chacal, or go to mikessx.net

 

As a general note:

Could we please keep this thread focused on the general discussion of lubricants at they relate to wet clutch motorcycles. Specific questions about problems with your particular machine, or other questions would best be dealt with in a seperate thread.

 

Hi Moe! What about using synthetic gear oil in the differential? Like Redline 75W85 GL-5 Gear Oil or Mobil 1?

 

Won't be a problem at all as long as you stick to the recommended viscocity for the working conditions.

 

Thank you

 

This is the Shell Rotella we are talking about right:

http://www.tscstores.com/5L-15W-40-CJ-4-ROTELLA-T-P14197.aspx#.VpuTNVL05NY

Not the T5 or T6 as they are synthetic

Cheers
af226

 

I use Yama lube 10W-40 all the time. In all of my bikes

 

yes thats the oil it also comes in a 10w 30 for the colder weather

 

FYI: Yamalube is made for Yamaha by Castrol (or used to be anyway, my info is a few years old).