1. Hello Guest. You have limited privileges and you can't "SEARCH" the forums. Please "Log In" or "Sign Up" for additional functionality. Click HERE to proceed.

Complete XJ650 Rebuild

Discussion in 'XJ Modifications' started by Devin Zdanciewicz, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. Devin Zdanciewicz

    Devin Zdanciewicz Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Pictures of the scratching on the outside of the cases.

    Original Case (7345 56545 40 46, is what I think I read, sorry it is upside down)
    IMG_0191.JPG IMG_0192.JPG

    Newer Case (5227 45666 45 40, this is harder to read)
    IMG_0189.JPG IMG_0190.JPG
     
  2. Devin Zdanciewicz

    Devin Zdanciewicz Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    The Crankshaft Bearings. 4 sets of them have the #1J12D , 1 set has #1J09A
    IMG_0187.JPG IMG_0188.JPG
    I can not find the "color" on any of them.

    But if my math is correct I have this [parenthesis is the case number backwards]
    Original Case with Crankshaft
    21222-(54565)=33343

    New Case with Crankshaft
    21222-(66654)=45432

    So would that mean I need a "Black", "Green" and "Yellow" bearing set?
     
  3. Devin Zdanciewicz

    Devin Zdanciewicz Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Now on to the Starter Clutch. How do I get these Allen Screws out to replace the springs and rollers?
    You can see in the second picture that the backside of the screw has been hit with a punch so that I can't unscrew them?
    IMG_0183.JPG IMG_0184.JPG

    Oil Spray Nozzle? It looks like a very small pin broke off of this? Does this need to be replaced?
    IMG_0180.JPG

    Finally just wanted to show you all the gears that were in the Original Case and the ones I purchased to replace them with
    Original (Broken Teeth)
    IMG_0178.JPG
    Newer Set
    IMG_0179.JPG
     
  4. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    15,375
    Likes Received:
    4,565
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Great American Desert
    I think that we are both clear on the terminology, and all of my prior answers (but one) remain the same.

    The crack can be welded, and the missing peice built up from weld and re-machined (this will increase the cost, so using replacement cases is now the better option uness you have a friedn who welds aluminum and will do the machine work in exchange for beer).

    Your math for the plain bearings looks correct, and your assssment of which bearings you need is correct as well. The color marks are difficult to see, and often are faded (see photo below). Keep in mind that there will have been some wear to the plain bearings, so you will still want to confirm clearances with Plastigauge before final assembly of the engine.


    The color marks look like this; note the black strip of paint on the long edge of the shell.
    [​IMG]

    Your oil spray nozzle looks to be undamaged. You should replace the o-ring though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016
  5. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    15,375
    Likes Received:
    4,565
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Great American Desert
    You can unscrew the allen bolts. The staking applies just enough distortion to keep the screws from backing out. You'll need to secure the clutch body in a soft-jawed vice and use a cheater bar on your allen key if you don't have a set of allen sockets.


    And the new gears look really good. Have a close look at the 2nd gear engagement dogs for rounding at the edges. If there is any we can link to the fix for that. Save the old gears for later use (the bad ones can make nice paperweights). The good ones might come in handy some day.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016
  6. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

    Messages:
    7,698
    Likes Received:
    1,047
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    At My Computer

    The locating pin (that keeps the oil exit nozzle pointed towards the chain) is broken/missing. It's nothing more than a small dowel pin, but it needs to be there. Perhaps you can drill it out and re-fit a generic hardware store pin.............

    Yes to replacing the o-ring.
     
  7. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    15,375
    Likes Received:
    4,565
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Great American Desert
    Oh crap. I did miss that.
    I think that an easier method would be to use a bearing retaining compound on the nozzle, just outboard of the o-ring. That would hold it in the correct orientation and still allow for later removal.
     
  8. Devin Zdanciewicz

    Devin Zdanciewicz Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Little bit of an update with a question attached:)

    So I am working on putting all my covers back together since I had to dismantle them for powder coating. I also dismantled my Starter Motor and used this thread to put it back together http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/replacing-your-starter-motor-brushes-w-pics.45727/.

    After I got though it all I had these pieces left over.
    IMG_0202.JPG

    I also used this diagram in the process to make sure I had everything but I don't see where they go.
    Starting Motor.gif
    I thought the washer on the right was #13 in the diagram but it is larger than any part it seems to sit around? Not sure if I accidentally put them in the bag when I was taking the motor apart or what. That thread doesn't show them anywhere either. But after I reassembled it, it seems to spin fine so I am just asking to make sure. I might need to take it apart again to show with more pictures but wasn't sure if anyone would be able to tell me right away.

    Also finding any sort of diagrams on the covers themselves seems to be difficult, like the clutch cover or the alternator cover. I had to locate images online to figure out which direction this went back on.
    IMG_0201.JPG
    Which speaking of, you can see the lower (I believe it is graphite) piece is broken off. Don't know what part that is and if you can get a replacement for it or if I would need to replace the whole thing?

    Any help is always appreciated.
    I got my first order from Chacal of a ton of rebuild parts, Gaskets, O-Ring, Hardware set, etc. Also got Springs and Rollers for the Starter Clutch which is my next project this week.
    More pictures of my process to come. Going to see confirm clearances with Plastigauge on my new bearing shells too to double check my math from above.
     
  9. Devin Zdanciewicz

    Devin Zdanciewicz Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Cleaned up and rebuilt my Starter Clutch with new Springs, Caps and Rollers. Can definitely tell a difference on how those rollers spring back compared to what was in there.
    IMG_0211.JPG IMG_0210.JPG

    Also cleaned up my Middle Driven Gear and Damper (again, hope the terminology is correct).
    I went to place that into the upper case to see if it fit and when I have that middle gear shim next to the bearing, it doesn't seem to fit? So I am wondering if the shim I have doesn't fit my new upper case, reason being is because of this quote from how I determined my Crankshaft bearing journal sizes.

    " Crankshaft is marked 21223 2111
    - Engine case is marked 34534 48 47 (note that these last 2 sets of 2 numbers --- ’47’ and ‘48’ in this example --- are codes used for calculating the thickness of the shims used with the middle gear drive shaft)
    - Rods are marked 6, 4, 3, and 3"

    Talking about this shim
    Middle-Gear.jpg IMG_0213.JPG

    Maybe I am wrong but when I try and fit it without the shim it slides in fine. So I don't know if my current shim is too thick or if it is just difficult to get in there. The Retainer plate with the Torx screws I never took off so I thought if I loosened that I could get it to sit correctly and then tighten the Torx screws back to make it snug?

    Outside of that, everything is going well. All my other parts are clean and ready to place once I double check my clearances for the crankshaft and the new bearings. Once that is good to go, I can put the cases together and move on to the top half.

    Next is cleaning Final Drive and Front Brake, reassembling Forks, powder coating Swing Arm. After that I can start "putting the frame back together" to get a overall picture and start mapping out brackets and tabs for new lights, seat, ignition, battery, etc.

    Still could use help on above post too.
     
  10. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    15,375
    Likes Received:
    4,565
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Great American Desert
    Your current middle drive shim may be too thick. The assembly should slide into place without difficulty, and without ANY slop, but you MUST remove the bearing retainer plate in order to fit everything up correctly.
     
  11. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    15,375
    Likes Received:
    4,565
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Great American Desert
    When you go to seal the case halves, I reccomend using Locktite 516 or 518 in place of Yamabond or Threebond. It's much easier to work with and very forgiving of sloppiness. Any squeeseout will mix with the oil and not do any harm.
     
  12. Devin Zdanciewicz

    Devin Zdanciewicz Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Next,

    Was putting my forks back together and was wondering what this was about.
    When I took them apart, the spring came out with the tighter coil pointing down (which the manual says have it pointing up and then the hollow metal tube/spacer (highlighted in Green) that was in there.

    But I don't see if on the diagram..? Is this something the previous owner could have done and if so, why?

    Screen Shot 2016-02-25 at 6.51.49 PM.png IMG_0145.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
  13. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,703
    Likes Received:
    670
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Cleveland
    You are looking at the manual for the 650 G and H. Your 82 is a J and the forks are a little different. It is correct, I just rebuilt mine. 82 Fork.png
     
    Devin Zdanciewicz likes this.
  14. Devin Zdanciewicz

    Devin Zdanciewicz Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Excellent! Thanks. Where is that diagram from, I don't seem to have that image in either of the two manuals I have?
     
  15. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,703
    Likes Received:
    670
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Cleveland
    There is a supplement manual for the J (82) model that covers the differences in the suspension, electrical, and YICS motor among other things. I recommend you get a copy with as far as you have it torn down. I have a PDF, PM me and I can figure out how to get it to you.
     
  16. Devin Zdanciewicz

    Devin Zdanciewicz Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Today I fit my cases together with my new journal bearings and used the plastigauge to check tolerances.
    The Manual calls for for 210 in-lb (or 17.5 ft-lb) of torque on the (10)8mm bolts that go around the Crankshaft. My Torque Wrench could only do 200 in-lb.
    The oil clearance asks for 0.040mm~0.064mm.
    Attached are the some pictures of me setting up. The circled numbers are the new bearings I purchased along with the ones I took from my old case.
    IMG_0221.jpg IMG_0222.jpg
     
  17. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

    Messages:
    7,698
    Likes Received:
    1,047
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    At My Computer
    You are doing things exactly in the right way, congrats!
     
  18. Devin Zdanciewicz

    Devin Zdanciewicz Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Put everything together and tighten it all down (I only used the 10 bolts that sat around the Crankshaft, not all 39 required for the whole case)
    I tired to get the best pictures I could of each clearance, starting from Left to Right.
    IMG_0225.jpg IMG_0226.jpg IMG_0227.jpg IMG_0228.jpg IMG_0229.jpg

    Part of me is unsure if I have them sitting in the right spot, with the markings on the case and from the Crankshaft itself and then have to spin one of them backwards to figure out what each one needs, there is a slim chance they are in 12345 when they should be 54321?

    Besides that, visually the clearances seem pretty good. #4 was the largest but wasn't as wide as the .038 measurement (meaning it is under 0.040mm)
    #5 being the smallest.

    I have three more "3" bearings from my old case, so I am wondering if I should swap out the 2 for a 3?

    Besides that, I think I am ready to assemble the cases back together next weekend and get moving forward.
    Any thoughts?
     
  19. Devin Zdanciewicz

    Devin Zdanciewicz Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Calipers
    Anyone have an idea how I can un-cease the piston?
    Or a good way to pull it out.
    IMG_0214.JPG IMG_0215.JPG
     
  20. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

    Messages:
    7,698
    Likes Received:
    1,047
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    At My Computer
    Grease gun on the bleeder screw, block-off plug in the union bolt hole, squeeze the handle and it pop!
     

Share This Page