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Dreaded starter clutch replacement

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Jetfixer, Jul 10, 2021.

  1. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    starter motor O-ring
     
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  2. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Now I'm mad ...put carbs on but have not put exhaust on , tried to start ...no joy have a weak spark ..think it is in the timing plate since I had it off , gave up for night .
     
  3. cds1984

    cds1984 Well-Known Member

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    One thing I learnt from one of the overhauls I did was, to put the complete thing together, wait for the carb bowls to be full and have the battery fully charged before hitting that starter button.
    My 'learning' was from ending up with a flat battery, fouled plugs and being really pissed off.
    Clean those plugs, fill those bowls, charge that battery, put on the exhaust, enable the enrichment circuit and take a deep breath.
    It'll all be fine! (the power of positivity surely must work!)
     
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  4. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    Timing plate is fixed so it may be one of the connections from the pickups. Is your battery fully charged? Be something simple stopping it from running, usually is.
     
  5. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    The spark is a weak spark to begin with, so you may just be looking at a normal spark
     
  6. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Epic fail ...trying to check everything I could think of was riding the Johnny Cash bike and had a shazam moment . Did a compression check and it was 0 yes zero on all four cylinders :eek: pull valve cover and I think I rotated crank without cam tensioner in and think valve timing is off ...I have a cheap borescope did not see any sign of valve contact with piston ..at least I hope not , so tomorrow going to check how far these are off . Live and learn if I have to will pull down the engine I just removed and for the starter clutch failed and do the deed on it ...but will know to not rotate crank .
     
  7. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    When you rotated crank you would have felt resistance if piston hit valves. Hopefully when you put tensioner back in the timing will be correct. Did you rotate the engine by hand before doing the compression check?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
  8. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Checked oh joy cams are 180 degrees out ....will have to have to reindex.
     
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  9. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Re indexed intake cam , turned engine over and was smooth, did a quick compression check all around 100psi a little low but this engine has sat for close to 2 years . Have to put it all back together, this went easier than I thought it would . I was afraid I bent a valve , but so far the compression check was good . Take my advise if you do the starter clutch replacement...DO NOT turn the crank and check timing marks on the camshaft ...don't ask me how I know about this lol.
     
  10. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    She runs , still need to put exhaust system on .
     
  11. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    :mad::eek: have to re synch carbs, can't get it idle without putting pressure on throttle it idles down to the point it dies . These carbs were spot on the other engine . I noticed my Morgan pro tune I have very low vacuum , I'm afraid this engine is weak . Trying to decide if I'm going to tear into the engine I just removed. I do have another repair kit for the starter clutch . I looked at the old clutch one of the rollers is flat spotted.
     
  12. Toyobaru866

    Toyobaru866 Active Member

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    Bummer... Did you check your valve clearances somewhere down the road? Or maybe all it needs is some more running?
     
  13. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    Could your piston rings be gummed up with engine not running since 2019? Mabe the acetone ATF 50/50 mix will help? I assumed old Yellow's engine only had the starter clutch failing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
  14. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Practice makes perfect , decided to tear into the engine I had removed . Going much faster , all the upper bolts out , clutch cover and clutch removed left side cover out . Still need to remove flywheel and the timing plate and then can flip engine over . The engine I just did the starter clutch in is a sick engine I'm afraid , I have tried everything I can think of have virtually no vacuum at idle with my Morgan tune . Check it against my Johnny Cash bike have great compression at 150 on all four cylinders. This engine is barely 100 psi . , the spare engine is 145psi so this engine is in better shape . I even tried something I normally would never try ...Restore in a can it did something smoked like a mosquito fogger have not checked to see if it made a difference.
     
  15. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    i've seen posts about the cam dots not lining up right but jumping one tooth on the chain made it just as far off the other way, only one is right
    did your cam dots line up perfect ?
     
  16. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Cams were 180 out , I made rookie mistake of rotated engine without cam tensioner in and before I put lower case back on . I reindexed the intake cam the exhaust cam was left as is cam dots are aligned now with cam cap.
     
  17. Minimutly

    Minimutly Well-Known Member

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    Brave man!
    Did you check the cam timing?
     
  18. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Yes when I disturbed crank and rotated , camshaft were 180 degrees out, repositioned intake cam Mark's line up with arrow on cam cap .
     
  19. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Making good progress ready to pull oil sump and the bottom case bolts and split case , but I only get an hour or two in the evening. I really want to see this starter clutch since it was slipping cold or hot , it really sucked this engine ran so good . The engine I have put in that I just did starter clutch , I have not totally gave up on still messing with my spare carbs synch is off slightly but have not had time to play with it. Sorry if I've confused anyone the engine I just did the starter clutch is the orginal engine to the bike. The engine I'm replacing starter clutch in is my spare engine , this has givin me two years of service .
     
  20. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    That's what l meant. Was the original engine giving good acceleration etc before the starter clutch failed?
     
  21. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    The orginal engine ran good ,but the spare engine ran better , or it could be the placebo effect. Lol
     
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  22. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Got case split it was a bit harder than other engine. Engine is spotless inside ,sump is very clean I've been using Shell Rotella 15/40. Got starter clutch out , rollers looked okay but springs are shorter than the rebuild kit and there was some wear grooves in roller plate the pictures attached show some wear, polished up with autosol metal polish a little better. Again I know I should do the guide but they look good ,so tomorrow I may start reassemble .
     

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  23. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Finally got lower case on ...only took it off three times:eek: had problems at rear of engine the fifth gear set would not line up right . I will give a tip for what worked for me put clutch shaft in the lower case , I took 0.32 safety wire about a foot in a half looped it around gear set and feed it through the sump opening and threaded through the engine mount holes till it is tight . Doing this keeps the shift fork in place and makes it easier when placing case back on . Once case is in place pull the safety wire out . Got the can tensioner back in and upper bolts , and the moment of truth ,put timing plate on and engine rotated 360 degrees.....happy dance . Still have alot more to put back on , not sure if I will do more tonight.
     
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  24. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Epic fail while putting flywheel back in it shifted ,went to remove and it was wedged and one ear broke off clutch basket :eek: I'm not sure if I can still use or not . I tried these alum weld rod to repair it would not melt rod but managed to melt the broken tab just fine lol opions on using this or not?
     

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  25. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    That's a bummer. Might be better getting a used one off E bay, or one of the XJ group.
     
  26. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Replacement flywheel showed up and engine is back together, so managed to do two engines with starter clutch replacement. No I did not do the chain guide replacement this would require more tear down . I have not completely givin up on the engine I just installed , this evening worked on it , rechecked cam timing again , reindexed it and I ....think it is right ....will find out in the morning, have to put carbs back on .
     
  27. Minimutly

    Minimutly Well-Known Member

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    "happy dance "
    Made me smile this - I do this too!
     
  28. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Sort of happy dance :D , getting cams timed "fixed" it sort of . Since this engine has been sitting for two years , replaced the starter clutch , now number 1 and 4 have 120 psi compression, number 2 and 3 105 psi ( carbs removed and no plugs in and battery fully charged ) . I need to recheck valve clearance , the carbs I'm using are recently been to church , using my Morgan pro tune at idle very low vacuum ( checked on my Johnny Cash bike at idle good indication of vacuum) . Rode to filling station and around neighbor hood it runs okay , still working at it , if I have to I have a spare engine lol . So far so good pretty nice with a hot engine and engine cranks over with no ....slipping.
     
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  29. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Took bike out got it up to 60 , not exactly blistering performance...guess will swap engine out after all :mad:.
     
  30. Minimutly

    Minimutly Well-Known Member

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    Something doesn't make sense here - low comps, if everything is correct with the valves and cams, would point to really bad pistons - ie no rings, melted lands etc. This would make it smoke like a garden fire, as well as breath really heavily - does it?
    If not, I would take the head off and check for bent rods.....
     
  31. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Swapping out engines , after I get this running going to pull head . I'm getting alot of practice removing and installing engines ,and splitting engines cases . Lol
     
  32. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    What sealer did you use on the crankcases? I have got Blue Hylomar but l think l will use the Yamaha sealer for the engine l am currently rebuilding.
     
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  33. Minimutly

    Minimutly Well-Known Member

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    Cylinder leakage test is better in detecting where the cr is being lost. You can actually hear it..
     
  34. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Trust me Yamabond is the bomb ! Beats RTV
     
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  35. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Got spare engine , still installing parts , did a compression test ALL over 150 psi as soon as I get it all back together , I will pull head on the engine I just removed .
     
  36. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Still making slow progress , almost ready to start this engine up. I'm bummed about the other engine .
     
  37. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Happy dance starts and runs good , have not rode it yet to get it good and hot , but it got pretty hot running it at idle ..right now it is HOT AND HUMID out . Starts good no crunching slipping.
     
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  38. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Got it all back together rode about 15 miles still need to synch carbs . This was okay ran my usual quick course, came home shut engine off waited five minutes, started right up with NO slipping . Now my turn signals have went south ..so need to figure out that.
     

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