Front Wheel & Brakes (82 XJ650R)

So recently I redid my front wheel bearings and after assembling I heard a really bad noise. I came home and pulled it all apart and found my rotor ate into my caliper mount on the left side.

I have no taken it all apart and tried to put it back together many times but no matter what I do nothing goes together smoothly.

If I put the spacer and speedometer hub onto the wheel I am unable to slide them between the forks smoothly and the only way I could get it into the forks is by forcing them apart.

By forcing them apart this unfortunately creates a situation where the rotor is not centered between the caliper mount.

I've included some pictures to maybe see something I've missed? One concern I've had is the spacer for the right side. Is it supposed to stick out like that?

Right Spacer:


Left Rotor:


Speedometer Hub:


Right Side:

 

check your fork tube alinement

where did you get the wheel bearings?

did you seat them fully?

can you show a photo of speedo hub in the wheel?

 

The right side spacer isn't seated fully, which would mean that the bearing isn't seated fully.
Please post pics of both sides of the wheel at the bearing bores. Take them a bit oblique so we can see the bearing depths clearly.

 

Pulled fork tubes and re-inserted and tightened down top pinch bolts and things seemed to fit better so thinking that was twisted.

Bearing kit came from All Balls part # 25-1316

Bearings are fully seated. Checked by putting finger underneath and no gap exists.

As mentioned the bearing is fully seated... so maybe the All Balls kit is incorrect?

I was thinking the spacer on the right side was seated all the way but it can't go down any further.

What I found to work to get everything lined up was to tighten the pinch bolt on the speedo hub side so that when I tightened the right side the rotors aligned within the caliper mounts.

This is leading me to believe there is either spacers or a bearing issue :\

 

all balls do fit properly

do you have the spacer tube in between the bearings?

 

If you mean the one for the axle yes that is in there.

Would someone be willing to take a picture of the front end of their bike so I could see the spacer and such in question.

One thing looking at this:
https://www.cmsnl.com/yamaha-xj650r-seca-1982-c-usa_model8877/partslist/E-01.html

Is I'm missing part #7 but I don't think that would make that much difference.

 

Also does the end of the axle with the hole sit against the speedometer hub? I assume yes.

 

Have seen the spacer inside the hub is crooked and won’t allow bearings to sit right. Or is fender pulling the forks together and not allowing you to install the wheel.

 

Only thing attached to the bike right now is the wheel and brakes nothing else. I know the spacer inside is fine as it can move around without any issues or binding.

I'm going to loosen everything off tonight and just tighten axle then bounce the crap out of the bike.

 

So I went out again and tried again and again...

Putting a punch in the axle hole allows the axle to not move but all that happens is the fork becomes severely bent inwards and causes the rotor to be out of align.

Its like this gap is killing the entire thing. (Up close: https://i.imgur.com/91CfrS0.jpg)

 

So I went back up and put about a 1/8" spacer between the punch and the fork leg and things seemed to line up better to almost good. If I pull out that spacer though things get out of whack again... so maybe the retainer ring for the speedometer does do something important?

Either way going to order that piece and see if that helps.

 

Well found the spacer and put it in and unfortunately did not. It still seems that I'm not able to get this correctly to tighten up without the rotor being out of whack

 

It shouldn't be able to move easily if the bearings are seated correctly. It gets held semi-firmly between the inner bearing races. It should rotate easily, but not move otherwise.

 

It isn't THAT easy.. just not to a point where you really have to force it.

Here is more pictures from the right and left side after the nut has been snugged up but not torqued. You can see how the right side aligns perfectly but the left side does not.

Maybe on this bike the axle should be fed from right to left instead of left to right? This is a Canadian Seca after all.

Right side spacer:


Right Side Caliper:


Left Side Speedo:


Left Side Caliper:

 

Ok your almost there. Undo the pinch bolt on left side and move the fork over until the gap is equal on the rotor.

 

My understanding is the pinch bolts are done last. Right now they are loose.

Here is how I understand it works.
1.Insert axle (including spacers)
2. Torque axle nut to 75ft/lbs
3. Torque pinch bolts.

Are you saying that is not correct? Because if I tighten the left pinch bolt before doing the axle nut I can get it to work.

Once I have tightened the axle nut there is no way for the fork leg to be moved at all as the axle is sitting completely against the speedometer hub.

The only other thing that I'm going to try is putting the fender on before doing any of the tightening and maybe that will hold the forks from doing this.

 

So I have another question... Regarding this picture: https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partsl...1982-c-usa-front-wheel_bigyau0792e-1_670d.gif

Does #3 float on #2 between the bearings? Or is it supposed to be installed under one of the bearings?

 

The fork will move a little bit with regards to speedo drive slot has about 1/4” of overlap with the lug on the fork. And the hole in the end of the axle is fully exposed.
3and 2 are part of the total length of space between the bearings. The fork should move with the pinch bolt loose. It may require a bit of leverage to do that.

 

@Toomanybikes looking at your pictures you have FAR less gap at the speedo to fork than I do. Your gap is at least half of mine...

When everything is snugged up on my bike the fat end of the axle is being pushed against the speedometer hub.

Looks like I'll be pulling the bearings out and looking at things again to see if something isn't sitting or working properly.

 

Well pulled the bearings... checked the bearings... proper size... re-installed bearings and re-snugged down. Absolutely zero change.

The only way I can get anything to line up is by using a wrench for my grinder on the outside of the fork.

If I pull the spacer out then everything is instantly out of align. So this tells me that something has too much gap somewhere and is causing excessive pull on the left leg.

Would someone be willing to measure the length of the spacer for the right side for me?

Or do I just do it this way then tighten the pinch bolts down and call it done?

Spacing:


Spacer:

 

did you ever check the strightness of the upper fork tubes?

 

Like if they are bent? No I haven't done that. But both slid smoothly through the trees without any binding so I would think they are not bent.

I'm just wondering if anyone else would just tighten the pinch bolts and call it a day.

 

The sliders can run smoothly even if the fork legs are slightly bent, or out of alignment.
Get a long level or other straight edge. Check the upper fork tubes lengthwise.

Also get two broom handles or similar. Lash one across the lower fork tubes just above the fender, and the other across the upper tubes just below the bottm triple clamp. Stand straddling the seat and sight down the forks toward the floor. What you want to see is upper broom handle obscuring the lower broom handle so that it looks like there is just one handle there. Quite often it is necessary to loosen everything up and straighten the fork alignment.

Do not just tighten it up and call it a day. Everything has to line up properly or those new wheel bearings won't last long (and your handling will be off).

 

I pulled the forks out of the trees and reinserted them. The only thing holding the forks in right now is the upper pinch bolts which are just slightly snugged down.

I was really hoping to not have to tear everything down again, but I will do that tomorrow to check the fork tubes for straightness.

 

With the wheel and fender off loosen fork pinch bolts and turn inner tube and you will see the lowers get closer together or farther apart.

 

Good idea. But if I am that far into it I might as well just pull them and check with a straight edge.

 

The straight edge will only tell you so much. If they are worn internally you won't see that with a straight edge.
Even if they are worn a bit you can still run them, and is sounds like they will be fine since you say that the sliders move easily.

 

Ok so I followed @Toomanybikes advice and found that I could easily spin the left upper fork tube while in the trees without any issues and noticed no movement of the lower fork tube. When I tried to do the same thing on thing on the right side I was unable to spin it properly and no matter how loose it just would not spin.

I took the fork out of the trees and ran a straight edge.... Right fork is bent quite a bit.

So hopefully this is the cause of my issues? It would definitely be out the amount I'm fighting with.

But now do I just use the wedge to bolt things together and ride it... or accept the challenge of finding a upper fork tube.

Top of fork tube:


Bottom of fork tube:

 

That is a very small bend I have straightened ones like that. Press and “V” blocks takes about 20 min to get it perfect. Those older forks are quite thick and will handle it. Some will disagree with doing that so maybe check with @hogfiddles he just purchased a parts bike

 

A member on here has a possible set with progressive springs.. I'm going to see about that first.

 

Welp two shops came back saying not going to touch it and one shop came back saying $110.

 

is that to fix the bend in the fork tube?
this is problally why 2 shpos turned you down

 

In the U.S. and Canada there was an abundance of new "stuff" and money following WW2, so the typical answer has been to put a new part on whenever anything breaks.
In the U.K. it took quite a bit longer for things to recover after the war, so fork straightening (and all sorts of other smart economic repair) became quite a common thing to do.
The problem isn't the practice of putting the fork legs back to true, it's that you are looking in the wrong country.
In N.A., it's more likely that you'll have to borrow a press and do the work yourself.
There is still an abundance of used forks, so Ebay is another option.

 

Oh I know why. The fork tube isn't even kinked.. just slightly bent.

Where I live we don't have much in the way of places to buy used parts... especially for a bike that no other parts fit. So yeah I can look at Ebay but being in Canada with an absolutely horrible exchange rate to get a new set will be the of a shop fixing it for $100 or more.

I also tried to use a bottle jack and the hitch on my truck but it just lifted the truck lol

 

Borrow a heavier truck? Sorry couldn't resist

 

And a bigger jack.
A 20 ton press is what he really needs though.

 

A local truck fitting shop should have the press you need. Strip the leg, straighten it carefully and reassemble

 

Alright... $200 later the fork is now straight but that also includes new fork seals and fork oil. Interesting discovery though...

According to the manual... My bike should have front springs that measure 21.8 inches (540.5 mm) springs in the front. When I measure out my springs they are 19 inches (482.6 mm) long.

It would appear to be that I have progressive springs in the front of this bike already?

 

The stock springs are progressive (not Progressive brand, but progressively wound). Springs can sag over time, but that is quite a lot of sag.
The Progressive brand springs are shorter than stock, and a spacer is used. Maybe Chacal can confirm the length of those.

 

There is a spacer. I think its about 1.5-2" long

Any feedback @chacal ?

 

Then you have aftermarket springs, and the spacer puts them into spec. Run them.

 

Already done and fresh 15w oil.

Will be re-assembling today so will have more updates layer.

 

Inner Tube Fork Springs:

HCP9436 Aftermarket front suspension COIL SPRINGS, one pair does both forks. For all XJ650 models. Front spring spacers are not included with these springs, and you'll need to note the following changes needed by model when installing them. NOTE: springs should be installed with the tighter (more-closely spaced together) coils towards the top of the fork tube.
$


1982 XJ650RJ Seca and all XJ650 Euro models will need the installation of an HCP8239 spring seat (one for each spring) and the fabrication of a 36.40mm long spacer when replacing stock springs. For a more precise feel, use only a 12.50mm spacer:

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/pdf/saving old standards.pdf

You can use the HCP8284 spring spacer tube (stock for 1982-83 XJ650 Maxim models) and cut it down to the proper length; one tube will provide enough material to do both springs and fork tubes…..or you can order the HCP21021 spacers tubes which are already cut to the correct length. NOTE: due to the difference in size of this spring versus stock springs, you will need to use approximately 7 cc's more fork oil (for a total of 243cc's per tube) when installing these springs and using the modified stock thin-wall metal spacer tubes as recommended above. The use of other type of spacers (thick-wall PVC pipe, for instance) will change this recommended fork oil volume by an unknown amount.

 

LOL so in a round a bout way I do have aftermarket of some form.

 

So this is where I end up now with the forks straight and the axle bolt snugged down.

Not sure if I am doing something wrong... but basically I am doing this..

1) Axle inserted with speedometer and passenger spacer then washer and nut on outside of fork tube
2) Insert tool to hold axle from spinning
3) Snug up the axle and bounce the forks and etc
4) Torque to 75ft/lbs

Am I missing anything or doing something wrong?

Right Caliper (Centered as always):


Left Caliper (Not quite Centered but closer):


Speedometer to fork tube spacing. The silver bit between the speedometer and fork tube is the fat axle end touching it. (This still does not seem right):

 

Alright so I got mad at the bike. I went outside and I shook it and bounced it and beat within an inch of its life and ended up here... I am going to call it good for now and go for a test ride later to break in the new pads.

 

I should also note that the steering feels "different" now and I can't put my finger on it. At slow speeds it seems to turn faster or something... its weird.. not in a bad way.. just something I need to get used to.

Could be new fork oil... could be heavier fork oil... could be the forks are now straight lol.

Who knows.

 

Well it looks like you are good to go with the centering, but I was thinking it should not have been much of an issue if done properly. I don't have a 650 Seca, but the 750 Seca is similar with the two calipers and the FSM directs that the axle be tightened, and then the fork tube moved side to side to center the disc in the caliper and then the pinch bolt secured.

I also believe this is right (zero clearance) as once the axle is tight if should form a solid link between any spacers and the bearing inner races.

 

Well I know something has happened to this bike in the past because full lock right the bars contact the tank but not full left.

At this point the bike is good and tracks straight when you release the bars so I am happy.

In the fall/winter I will tear down the front and will do head bearings and fix the tree bumpstops.

 

I concur with all your conclusions.