I just got a 92 Seca II for free

Thanks Tom....we've all run into these headaches while wrenching on old bikes ...but us do-it-yerselfers also know the satisfaction of a job well done... something you have yet to experience when it comes to your bike. We're just helpin' you get your first taste

In your situation I would try the following...
I'd get a phillips that has more of a blunt nose, insert it and then smack it with a hammer. Not real hard, but hard enough to seat the screw driver a little and hopefully break the seal a little (like a mini impact ) Then apply as much pressure as you can when you try to loosen it....If that doesn't work , next step would be to take a dremel and cut a groove across the head and try with a flathead screwdriver..if THAT fails there are two options left...drill out the head of the srcew or cut the cable so you can at let get the carbs out of the bike so you feel like SOME progress is being made :wink: of course then you have the cost of a new cable and the screw problem is still unresolved...ok..so the cable idea is an absolute last resort.... Don't get too frustrated by the setbacks..they're half the fun of workin' on stuff (plus it's a good excuse to have another beer while you contemplate a solution) 8)

 

Take the whole Mount out-of-there.

Undo the Bracket from the Corners of the two Carbs and lift the whole thing out.

Another Member wants you to get Blunt Noses Phillips Screwdrivers.

You NEED Cross-Head Screwdrivers.
Get the right tools.
You will encounter less difficulty removing the fasteners when you have the right tools.

Phillips and Cross-Head are NOT the Same.
Using a Phillips Screwdriver to remove Cross_Head Screws puts you in the Boat that you are riding upstream.

 

Lighten up Rick.... if you recall
[quote="ike6116"...if any of you have any like home remedies or anything that could work for getting this screw out I'll try it ....[/quote]
I took that to mean "does anyone have ideas I could try with what I have right now.."
Yeah he should get the correct screwdrivers, it will save him headaches down the road, but that doesn't do much to help 'right now'. True, a blunt tip phillips isn't the ideal solution, but at this point it's at least an idea to try. When I get into these types of predicaments, that's precisely what I do..try to think out of the box to resolve the current problem, then go back to the tried and true...

 

LOL now you guys tell me, jesus.


This could have helped a long time ago.

A friend of mind suggested getting a rubber band and putting it between the screw and screw driver, I don't think Ill do that till I get some cross head screw drivers

 

Searching on homedepot.com and there is no listing for Cross-head screwdrivers and googling just links to Phillips stuff, is there another name this stuff goes by?

 

Here ya go Tom
http://www.centralhobbies.com/tools/jis.html
do a search for JIS screwdrivers (Japanese International Standard) Check some of your local automotive supplier stores. That's probably a better place to start. If you go to the home improvement stores and ask for a jis screwdriver (especially if you pronounce it "jizz") you might get some pretty strange looks 8O probably better to stick with the "jay eye ess" pronunciation :lol:

 

Ya, MIGHT get strange looks. Thanks again.

Though between having to hunt around for these and then probably having to buy a drill anyways and the fact that the hardest part of this whole operation is still to come (with potentially even more screws to strip / drill out) of actually taking the carburetors apart to clean them (the pictures in this manual are brutal) I'm beginning to think I was probably right all along in having a shop do it. Anything that keeps me off the bike for longer is horrible and it's looking like that's what this is going to end up doing.


Advance Auto Parts doesn't have JIS screwdrivers on their website, Home Depot doesn't have them on theirs either (I check there because those are the closest stores to me) they might have them in store but not on their website yet somehow I doubt it.

 

The Craftsman Number is: No.# 41299 P WF

 

I actually work right by the Cambridge Side Galleria, Ill head over to Sears on my lunch break and check it out

 

I googled jis screwdriver and found this page. Very nice looking tools.

http://www.rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_d ... bcat_ID=65

Loren

 

No joy at Sears. The Craftsman website sucks and doesn't allow you to search via part number.

I'll try home depot, advance auto parts, true value and any other place near by but ordering a set online... then we're waiting for it to get shipped, again I have to buy a drill to drill out these screws at that point im nearly $200 in, and one more week removed from riding the bike. (this is prime time too)

I know it's easy for you guys to say "oh just wait it will be worth it "cause you all have running bikes (in most cases more than one) but for me I'm not sure it is.

 

Believe me - every one of us has been in your shoes before.

Regarding drilling out machine screws, I have two master cylinders that had stuck top screws (for a Kawasaki, not XJ). They both have off-center drilled holes due to my non-machinist skills and reluctance to spend $80 to have a "real" machinist take them out. Ended up buying a couple-year old replacement from ebay for around $20. You can do this better than me if you make sure to center punch a starting mark and drill exactly down the center of the machine screw. Get a set of left-hand drill bits (I got a set from ebay for $14) so you will be drilling in the same rotation as the screw needs to go to come out. Soak the screw with PB Blaster (versus WD40) for a day prior to drilling.

After you get all the holders/fasteners off, you might want to consider doing what most of us have done - replace those junk JIS/kindofphillips screws with Allen-head machine screws (in stainless steel where available). Chacal might even have a kit of new fasteners to replace all the carb fasteners. If not, you can order all sorts of machine screws from McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/).

 

I wonder why the bike wouldn't start?



All 4 were like this

Going to soak in carb cleaner for a good long time when I buy some tomorrow

 

Holy moo poo batman!! Did you call S.E.T.I.? I thik that might be some kind of extra-terrestrial life form!!! I've seen some dirty carbs before, but nothing that looked like it was ready to give birth to another set of baby carbs before like yours!!! Sheesh.
Guaranteed if a shop cracked open your carbs and saw that they would be calling you on the phone ... " You'll need to buy a whole new rack of carbs. Yours are beyond repair. We just happen to have set of vintage carbs that are on sale this week... Only $850. But they need to be cleaned and rebuilt with a carb kit, then tuned. Shouldn't be more than $350 ...not including labor..." 8O

Post some (smaller :wink: ) pics once you have removed the life forms from the carbs. you might need to learn a new phrase.... it goes like this
"Chacal... HALP!!"

lol ... we'll get ya squared away

p.s. I showed my wife pics of your carb. She's your average woman who knows nothing about mechanical stuff (easy, ladies of the forum ) and even SHE said "Holy Crap! those are terrible" when she saw them. I think you win the "worst carbs" contest for 2010...

 

Welcome to the site. You'll do fine with the advice you will get here. Don't be affraid to mess something up you can always backtrack and fix it. I, as well as everyone else on this site can understand just wanting to ride, but imagine that ride knowing that you were the guy responsible for making it all happen. I knew nothing when I first got my bike, but with this site, my Clymer manual and a few phone calls I've been able to get a outstanding running bike. If you still want to take it to a shop, take it to a local guy who works in his garage, and not the dealers.
Welcome again and good luck

 

and remember to clean your emulsion tubes if that bike has it... if its like the xj carbs, the needle rests in it, it'sa little brass tube, and you have to remove the main jet and tib the carbs upside down, they may fall out if you have the needle out or may require some light coaxing with a small screwdriver

 

People just know it's wrong looking at it, it's pretty funny. When you're in person it's even better because you can smell that it's gasoline and you know gas shouldn't be like that.

My roommate gave it a look and said "I bet Coleman will be glad his bike is no longer just sitting there all shitty like this" he knows nothing about bikes and Coleman being the guy who gave me the bike.

Speaking of which he's been checking in on this thread and is a tad embarrassed about the carbs so if you guys could continue to talk about how awful they are it would make me laugh.

 

>ahem<

What a despicable person this Coleman is for allowing such a beautiful machine like an XJ to become infested with a shameful amount of expired gasoline buildup.



Just kidding. It's bound to happen. Luckily carb cleaner will take it out in a jiffy. Based on that spectacle you'll definitely have to take apart every little bit of the carbs, because who knows what's lurking in the other passageways.

 

DO NOT SOAK THE CARBS unless you really want to replace the throttle shaft seals. If you're not going to remove the butterflies (and all that entails) and pull the shafts then do not soak them; you'll wreck the throttle shaft seals and end up having to.

 

+20! It turns out that one of the best carb soaking liquids available today is Pine-Sol. It will work real well at getting rid of gunk and hardened goo but not affect rubber parts (it will remove paint and a layer of skin though - DAMHIK). Disassemble the carbs' parts as much as possible; get a plastic storage bin large enough to put the rack in it; get giant economy size Pine-Sol; put rack in container; dump in Pine-Sol until rack is covered; let sit for several days, checking each day for progress (disassemble more to bare bits, jets, emulsion tubes, etc. once the first layer of goo is gone but you can leave the carb bodies connected to the racks); rinse all parts in water; blow-out passages with air; dry thoroughly. FWIW - Pine-Sol can be reused if you strain the bin's contents back into the bottle.

 

Wow ok, thanks for the tips guys. Just saved me whole lot of grief. Can anyone corroborate the whole Pine-Sol method?

If this definitely wont bother anything ill pick some up see if that will knock a good chunk of the gunk out then go in there with some carb cleaner / qtips.

 

pine-sol does indeed work...gently too

 

QUITE impressed with how a two hour soak in pine-sol worked.

I should have taken a picture of what the liquid looked like after the soak and man oh man did it stink, think the over powering nature of pine sol met with the the stomach turn of stale gas.

Went at it a bit with a toothbrush/qtip and set them to dry last night at about midnight, I won't get back at them till about 8 PM tonight.

 

Check this huge discussion out:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560117

 

Still won't start.

Hit it with the starter fluid and it will rev up high real quick but once that burns off it dies. A couple times it made some noise like it was was going to try to kick over and I'd smell a little exhausty smell but it was fleeting. I tried prime it didn't work either, don't know if I was using prime wrong or not I just would switch it over with full choke give it a 3 count and try to start.

Feeling really defeated

 

buck up me boy..... I doubt that anyone EVER has had success cleaning carbs on their virgin voyage I sure didn't...

There are a bunch of threads here that give very detailed instructions on HOW to clean the carbs, what to do and what not to do. Some are lengthy and at least one time in the process of reading through them you'll think (or say) "..screw this sh*t, I just want the darn thing running" (I know I did 8O ) Just stick with it and read the posts until that little light pops on above your head :idea: ( you know ..the "Ohhhh I get it".. light

Here's some of the threads I found

Clean Your Own Carb's - The Whole 9 Yards - by: Rick Massey
Bench Syncing Carbs
Carb Sync Tool
What I went through when I clean my carbs...

Maybe some of the other members here know of threads with step-by-step instructions with pics too...

There are some very small passages in the carb that require using a thin strand of wire to clean. I had to clean my carbs twice before I got EVERYTHING cleaned well (at least I think I got it all cleaned well...)
..we all understand your frustration...but there is light at the end of the tunnel, the guys here will get you heading towards it at high speed on your bike!!! (not to be confused with THE Light at the end of THE Tunnel!! 8O ) 8)

 

Yea man, those carbs looked so nasty before that it would really not surprise me if there a couple tiny blockages in some of the tubes. How do you rebuild? Did you remove the pilot/main jets? Blow out the enrichment circuit (aka "choke")?

Did you bench sync before putting back on? It's very easy... Hmm, what else...

Well, you're not alone! Everybody here has been precisely where you're at. The reward is coming.

 

I didn't disassemble the carbs much. I guess there will be no getting around that.

Also the little metal bracket that holds the choke cable in wont come off, why? Because the screw is stripped, I just shimmed it with a flat head to pull the choke cable free once it was disconnected from the throttle wheel or whatever that thing is last time. Well I decided to drill that thing out so I could reassemble correctly (not having to shim) and my screw extractor snapped off in the screw, that was f***ing classic. Guess ill be shimming it forever now (which I almost prefer since it's kind of easier) but it sucks because that was my larger countersync and if Im going to disassemble the carbs (and replace the hardware as I go like I have been) completely than I actually need that size bit again, back to home depot we go I guess.

Also I've been thinking: is it possible that the what I assume is the fuel pump (part that hooks to both the gas tank and feeds the carbs) is gunked up too?

Also as long as this thing isn't running, Im taking the bus / bumming rides so this is kind of depressing. The "reward" won't really feel as gratifying like "wow this hobby I have has really paid off" it will be more like "Finally, something that shouldn't have taken nearly this long, happened, yay."

 

With as bad as those carbs looked , you'll have to remove everything from each carb. Don't separate the carb bodies from the rack, but every jet will have to be removed. My advice is to get a little tin cupcake tray and keep all the parts for each carb in a single tray (don't mix and match part from one carb to another) Take plenty of pics as you disassemble so you know where everything goes. BEFORE you remove the mixture screws ( On the top of the carb body where the intake boot hooks up)In this pic they are dirfectly above the things sticking in the carbs throat.

I would turn the screws IN keeping careful count how much you turn each screw until it lightly seats. (3 and 3/4 turns, for #1 3 and 2/3 for #2 ..and so on) Keep track of each carbs turns. Disassemble everytthing, including the enrichment (chock) circuit of the carbs.
Once you have cleaned everything you can see, look again and make sure you didn't miss anything. Flush everything well with carb cleaner and if you have access to a compressor that is even better for blasting through those tiny passages.
When everything is clean reassemble the carbs. Bench sync the carbs. Set your float height using the wet (clear tube) method, then reinstall on bike. I would then rig up some kind of bottle or something to supply gas to the carbs. Something that you can hang like an IV drip for the bike That way you eliminate the tank as a source of problems. Now...remember when we recorded how many turns we screwed in each mixture screw BEFORE we took them out. Now put the screws back in, lightly seat them, then turn each one out your recorded # of turns. Now you should at least be at a pretty good starting point to dial in the carbs.
Once you get her running than I would take the petcock off the bike and clean that thoroughly. How much gas was in the tank? You made need to flush that as well.

I understand your need to get this running SOON, but keep this in mind. When dealing with carbs there is no short cut. Being thorough and meticulous will get you better results faster. Hang in there.. you can do it!!!

 

Your doin good dude, don't lose it now. That piece that you are talking about is the fuel petcock. There is a screen in there that may be gunked up after seeing your carbs. Its easy to remove. and clean. You make need a rebuild kit but check it out first.

Even if you did take this to a shop it still may be sitting and you dodn't want to know how much they would charge you in the end. They give you a quote but after they opened up those carbs, the may have doubled.

Your so much much further than you thought you would ever get. You have to see this thing to the end. If you spend a few more bucks on tools, you will always have them for the next project. Tools are the best investment one can make.

Keep up the good work.

GB

 

No, not the petcock, Im talking about the thing that is between that and the carb, it's under the tank but not connected to it like the petcock is. It also doesn't have any switches on it (like the petcock ON, PRI, RES) it just has hoses connected to it.

Im going to keep going if only because I have to just bummed. I feel like if I had a buddy who knew this stuff they could have showed me everything so clearly and it would have been done weeks ago and I'd have a way better knowledge of trying to decipher the shitty pictures in this manual and piece together online tips. Just frustrating.

 

Just take the whole set back and get a refund at Home Depot. All the commonly-available screw extractors are junk. You either need to get a very $$ set of machinist-grade extractors or a fairly low $ set of left-twist drill bits (cuts in the same direction as the screw needs to come out). Not saying that it is easy, but usually works better.

With the choke cable clamp - you might be able to grab the head with a Vice-grip and get it out that way.

 

Can you post a pic of this strange sounding device?!?!

I would strongly suggest reading this post by Rickomatic Clean Your Own Carb's - The Whole 9 Yards - by: Rick Massey It's VERY thorough and easy to follow (I used it with my first carb rebuilding adventure) There are also a lot of tips and ways to avoid problems that can be encountered, take them seriously and you should be just fine.

 

To my knowledge, that is the fuel pump

 

Andrew is correct. From googling "Seca II fuel pump" it appears that is is a vacuum driven fuel pump. You should see a fuel line coming in from the tank, two that go to the carbs and 1 that goes to the side of the motor somewhere. Yup...this will need to be looked at/cleaned as well. Good news though....these are available for purchase cheapcycleparts.com for the low low price of...(drum roll please.....) $82.29 #45 on This page

 

Who called fuel pump?! I'm proud of my deductive reasoning skills, how hard are these bad bous to remove and clean because my money says there's sludge in there

 

It's not hard to get off at all. You can just remove those two bracket bolts that go into the frame. Just be careful removing all the fuel lines (if you choose to do so) because they seem to deteriorate/crack easily at the ends, and if you yank on em hard enough you might end up having to replace one. Just be gentle

I'm not sure about what to use to clean it out. There might be some rubber gaskets in there that you don't want disintegrating because the cleaning fluid was too strong i.e. carb cleaner ect..

Gas is a pretty good cleaning agent, I'd be surprised if there was any trivial amount of sludge/blockage, but it wouldn't hurt to rule that out. You could probably soak it in PineSol. I use this stuff to soak engine parts and it works pretty well.

 

did somebody say.... PINE SOL?!

 

BUMP
So how goes the fight Tom? You've been awful quiet this last week. Are ya making headway??

 

my question is this- is a vacuum powered fuel pump really necessary? you're only feeding 600 cc and im sure gravity can do its job, to me it looks like the spawn of satan on cb750s that are ripped off instantly, if i think it's too far beyond repair i would just try a 1 into 2 fuel line splitter and cap off that vacuum hose

 

Didn't make much headway. I kind of left it for awhile after working late I didn't want to come home and get upset and this weekend I spent all at my brother's house enjoying the pool. I was upset I wasn't able to work on the bike.


A few things, It seems to not be the fuel pump, gas is getting in there just fine.

At times, I can get it to sort of start to kick over, I put the petcock on pri and full choke on, pin the throttle all the way open and it sounds like it's going to start but then just dies off, makes a weird exhaust smell too, could something be in there fouling up the works?

Ill most likely take the carbs off again this week and go through all those posts you linked.

Thanks for the concern bro!

 

Heeey Toommm...
You didn't lock yourself in the garage and starve didja?? lol Any progress??

 

might be worth taking the fuel pump out and taking off the covers to see if there are any any foreign bodies in there...had a similiar problem with my diversion and it turned out to be a snippet of cable tie stuck in the pump stopping the diaphram working properly......Also over here in the UK we use redex additive poured staight into the carbs when running to clean em out.....makes smoke like satans reefer party but seems to work....