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New LED Head Light - casuing issues

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by XJcook, Mar 1, 2017.

  1. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    in parallel with the low beam wire? that divides resistance
    try putting it in series with the ground wire or low beam wire this will add resistance

    also did you mean 2.5 ohm not 25 ohm?



    http://www.calculator.net/resistor-calculator.html


    any resistor you put inline diminishes the savings of going to led .
    just like using a load resistor in led turn signals

    stock bulb specs upload_2017-3-14_0-46-15.png

    this link caculates watts of the resistor
    http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohmslaw.htm

    3 ways to calculate to see how many amps(watts) are used by resistor

    2.5 ohms uses 4.8 amps at 12 volts =57 watts

    3 ohms uses 4 amps at 12 volts= 48 watts
    w/v=amps

    I think you need about 5 ohms to equal oem bulb 2.4 amps would add 28.8 watts

    5.5 ohms would be 2.18 amps would add 26.1 watts

    remember you are running 14 volts and there is voltage drop across the resistor
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  2. Wintersdark

    Wintersdark Well-Known Member

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    Should be pretty easy to just jumper the circuit and disable the headlight indicator.

    A suitable load resistor in series with the light should work, but will completely negate any power savings leaving "it looks cool" as a reason to run LED, which is certainly still valid.

    I'd argue the best route is NOT using a load resistor, to be honest. That wattage could be used to maintain your battery better, run heated grips, or any number of things.

    But, I respect wanting to upgrade, and keep the CMS functionality.

    An everybody wins alternative would be jumping the existing circuit, but adding your own. Add a relay after the headlight, use that signal to the CMS? Headlight burns out, no signal from the relay.
     
  3. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    his best bet would be Polocks suggestion of the magnets
     
  4. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    That's pushing the limits of the wiring when combined with the bulb wattage, but probably OK

    The load resistors need to be installed in parallel in order to return the current back to the original spec. If you install the resistor in series you will exacerbate the situation you are trying to correct.
     
  5. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    for some reason the numbers here don't work, first we have
    then there's this
    so the high beam should have worked, the low may or may not have worked. is it possible to hook up a regular headlight, just to prove the CMS ?
     
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  6. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    at 18 watts and 12 watts with 14 volts when running

    you get .7 amps and .8 amps
     
  7. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Both the high beam and low beam are continuously monitored so there will need to be a load resistor on both the high and low - still unsure of the value on that. With the regular incandescent bulb the circuit for the non illuminated side relies on the low resistance of the filament to effectively ground that side. That way when you are running along with the low beam on and if the high beam filament should break, then a "HEAD" warning would be set even though the high beam is not in use.

    Still a work in progress but some thoughts:

    The illuminated side of the LED bulb draws sufficient current so the CMS should not flag the "HEAD" warning - the 1 amp low side is marginal though. However, as mentioned above both sides are continuously monitored. So on the non illuminated side the LED bulb presents a problem as insufficient voltage is present (4V) provided by the CMS.

    Shorting the reed switch or closing them with a magnet would not solve the problem as the logic appears to be an OR function:

    Reed switch closed on illuminated side OR filament present on non illuminated side.

    Edit: See below shorting reed switches appears to work but disables CMS monitoring of the light - explanation to follow as to why.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  8. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Electrical tape. Cover that part of the LCD. Done.
     
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  9. mlew

    mlew Well-Known Member

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    Electrical tape. Cover that part of the LCD. Done.

    That was my first suggestion to him. Tape
    I have an idea we are going to try in the next few days to fool the current sensing relays in the LCD panel. I'll let everyone know if it works.
     
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  10. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    But then you lose one of the nice safety features of the bike letting you know if the lamp is out. I don't think anyone would argue that illuminating the headlight in the day time will increase the riders visibility and reduce the risk of someone pulling out in front of you.

    Sure, it's an easy check to stick your hand in front of the headlight, just as it is easy to say I will always remember that the side stand safety feature I disabled is not a problem as I will always raise the side stand before taking off. Murphy's law - why risk it?
     
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  11. cds1984

    cds1984 Active Member

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    +1
    Get it to work. Don't disable it.
     
  12. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    So a bit further testing on this. You can actually go quite high on the load resistors to bypass the non illuminated filament check. Values as high as 1K will work, which is less than a quarter watt of power consumption. A load resistor is required on both the high and low side connected to return. However, this does negate part of the safety feature in that the non illuminated side will not be under constant monitoring. Given the electrical characteristics of the LED bulb I presently don't see a way around this.

    Note: I have three of these assemblies, and one is unique in that the low beam floating voltage is 12V as compared to 4V on the other two. This assembly, which I speculate has an issue requires a much lower value load resistor to bypass the non illuminated filament check. The floating voltage can be checked by disconnecting the headlight plug and measuring the high and low terminals to return - measure low with headlight set to high beam and high with headlight set to low beam.

    As for the high current side (reed switches) as long as the LED bulb chosen is of adequate wattage (approx. 1 amp minimum) then the CMS monitoring of the lit element should still function.

    I could never duplicate this. All situations that produced a "HEAD" warning resulted in a red flashing warning light.
     
  13. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    you could unplug high or low on led light to simulate broken filiment
     
  14. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    how about some running lights to draw a little more power
     
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  15. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    +1
    that would give you more light for your wattage use than just burning it with a resistor.
     
  16. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    I would put down money that the warning lamp bulb is burned out; that's why it's not flashing.
     
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  17. XJcook

    XJcook New Member

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    Okay - here is what I settled on.
    I think MLew has higher expectations of my Maxim than I do. I was willing to live with the "HEAD" warning on the dashboard, but he was not. (but because of his encouragement, I have such a kick-ass bike - so thank you MLew)

    Looking at all the options, and playing around with load resistors, we settled on soldering in two jumper wires on the reed switch leads that protrude from the bottom of PCBA. Bypassing the reed switches. See photos below.

    IMG_20170317_204228_392.jpg IMG_20170317_204246_648.jpg

    He lightly removed the epoxy coating on the ends, and then soldered two wires, one for the low beam (tan colored wire), and one for the high beam (red wire).
    He then used a little hot glue to secure the wires to the board.

    IMG_20170317_205327_259.jpg

    It was a tight fit putting the board back into the case, but we squeezed it in.
    What I like about the solution we selected is we made the jumpers about 10 inches long so I can route them into the headlight bucket. If I ever want to return to a standard bulb, I can always easily access the jumpers in the bucket, cut them to break the jumper, and re-instate the warning indicator as designed.

    Thanks everyone for your help on this - I suspect this fix will last for a long time, but I will update again at the end of the 2017 riding season.
     
  18. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    You are now required to do a full write up of the process and put it in the DYI section. :)
     
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  19. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Epon as we always called it. Yamaha did not want anyone repairing these as the component side is also covered in the stuff. It is also perhaps a vibration deterrent for the components, but would be overkill for that purpose. Heat is the only way to remove it - like with a hot soldering iron to isolate to the point of interest.

    I was about to post about this again and provide an explanation as to how the CMS is monitoring the lights and what could be done to keep the functionality - at least the working beam.

    Some more observations:

    The CCA from your CMS appears to be different. Perhaps just a different revision, but I have looked at two and they were the same. I have the Seca, but thought it would be the same as the Maxim? The Seca P/N for the CCA is 5G2-8358E-00. You can look at this pic and see the difference in the etch on the backside of the CCA and see that it is different:

    upload_2017-3-19_10-30-49.png

    If you happen to have a pic of the top to the CCA I would like to see it.

    The reed relay coil is high current, but the actual switches that were bypassed with the jumpers are handling low current TTL signals. Therefore, if disabling the CMS in this manner, then a smaller gauge wire could be used to make the fit easier as well as using only three wires as one side of the reed relay switches share a common between the two on the CCA.

    Glad you got it working and are happy with it. Did you consider doing the mod for the brake and tail LED? I have only seen one other person on the forum do this other than SQLGuy, and although it is advertised to keep original functionality, my current speculation is it would not function as originally intended.
     
  20. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    So here is a circuit cutout of how the Headlight warning is monitored.

    Q1 must be turned off to go high and indicate a safe condition. The pull-up for Q1 is provided by the Control Chip on the main CCA.

    Ground through high and low filament would apply to UK bikes that have the headlight switch, but active monitoring would still occur when the switch is placed in the off position. Ground through one filament and one reed would apply if the headlight switch is set to ON.

    Ground through one filament and one reed would apply to versions where the headlight is always on.

    The filament check should not take much of a load resistor to defeat, values as high a 1K should be adequate.

    So, it is important to note it always takes two to create a safe condition. The LED bulb electrical characteristics will defeat the filament check and require a load resistor (1K or so) for the non-illuminated side. Subsequently, the LED bulb must also draw enough current on the illuminated side to activate the reed, which to my testing to date is just above 1 amp.

    Ground though two reeds would also work, but not a normal condition and jumping the reeds will disable the CMS headlight monitoring for all conditions.

    upload_2017-3-22_12-30-12.png

    Edit: Added more details to drawing
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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