off topic: HHO

think about a 120v ac generator (for your rv or house). its sitting there running at about 1/8 throttle barely under load. plug in a table saw or grinder (or something that requires some juice), and when you turn it on the generator will momentarily bog and then throttle up.

drawing amperage from an alternator or generator puts a load on it....an alternator pushing 20 amps will require more HP to spin than an alternator pushing 5 amps. more HP input means basically more throttle/fuel being fed into the engine.

the issue that everyone argues, and i have only seen positive real world results; is the extra fuel going in to make the H less than the fuel saved by burning the H ? as long as you are putting in less than you are saving, then its all money saving goodness.

 

I've read about this method being used on a motorcycle:

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_lib ... h/me3.html

It's a passive water injection system that is extremely inexpensive.

 

Hey schmuco, se hillsy's post "journey to forever"

 

OK, I've been thinking about this.
As far as the energy in= energy out theory,
The system isn't producing hydrogen, it's releasing it from it's bond with the oxygen.
so, does in=out still apply?

 

energy in = energy out always applies.

Production of hydrogen (which is kind of a fallacy since it is the basic element all the others were made from in stars) requires a particle accelerator or fission reactor to split it off other elements.

 

you are correct in your thinking, but the HHO is still the end product, therefore you are "producing" it.

the energy in and energy out still applies. also dont forget that the process loses energy through the form of heat, so that plays into the energy in/out equation as well.

 

Not trying to start anything here just trying to understand.
In your example above what you say makes total sense.
But my car has an alternator, not a generator or a magneto.
Just over idle it is making all the power it's going to make no matter how fast you spin it.
As its' only purpose is to charge the battery.
Everything runs off the battery, as long as the batterys charged you don't need the alternator.
The battery has huge amps to spare.
So this is why I say it's free electricity.
Yes, I understand there will be loses to heat, friction, ect.

 

only if the demand for the amperage is there. after you use the battery to crank it over and start the engine the alt. will charge full bore until the battery reaches the charge set point, and then the alternator will go from pushing 100amps (for example) down to about 10, maybe 20 if the ac is blowing and the lights are on. so in reality, just over idle you have the POTENTIAL to be making all the power.....but it will only push as many amps that are actually needed.

now i just want to clarify, i think running brown's gas is going to pay off in the end, and i am working (very slowly) on my own generator. the energy in-out issue is not what i really care about. if it takes a million watts to get 10 watts back, as long as im saving money ill do it 8)

 

Therefore, we burn more fuel mining coal than what we get from the coal we mine :wink:

 

Sort of... We do use more energy getting it than we get out of burning the result. Energy is spent in the form of people doing work, as well as in powering machines. That is really one of the major issues with fossil fuels... they are exceedingly (energy) expensive to get.

 

TheHound has a point (sort of)

On many motorcycles the armature has fixed magnets, it always supplies peak power. The voltage regulator applies a load to ground to bleed off the excess power. Any additional electricity used is essentially free because it was being wasted.

Some bikes have an exciter coil instead of fixed magnets. Voltage is regulated by controlling the power to the exciter coil. Any extra electricity usage increases both the power used in the exciter coil and the additional torque to turn the armature.

On our XJs have an electromagnet armature. The voltage regulator changes the strength of the magnetic field in the armature to control the voltage. Extra power usage requires more electricity to the armature and extra torque to turn the armature.

I believe automobile alternators are of the 2nd or 3rd type. Any additional electrical load will use up horsepower from the engine.

I remember an experiment from one of my elementary school science classes. We had a crank operated generator. The thing was real easy to turn until you attached a light bulb, then the energy to run the light had to come from your wrist and it was quite difficult to spin.

There is no real difference between a generator and an alternator. A generator simply has a mechanical rectifier built in.

 

it always supplies peak VOLTAGE, but not AMPERAGE.

 

seeing as we are already off topic, hence the title of this thread....
I know nothing of HHO or ANY equivalent, but I do have some questions.

I hear people say"increase efficency of fuel already burned" this sounds good.
Is that the principle use of HHO?
What is the efficiency of my bike?

 

I have read that the efficiency of a "regular" car is 9%, and I would estimate that an XJ would be 5% , yes, wasting 95 % of the energy in every gallon.

The most efficient engines are ocean going HUGE 2 stroke diesels, that are able to reach 55% efficiency, running at less than 300 RPM, they have almost no pumping losses, and with 36 inch bores, and 80 inch strokes, every aspect of the engine is designed to save fuel.

Our bikes are at a performance level of over 100 HP per liter, compared to the new Corvette, it would need to make over 700 HP to reach our state of tune. Think about that the next time your bike starts acting up, you are working on a FINE, high performance piece of machinery.

 

We just got done installing the rig in my Crown Vic. I'll post my findings within a couple of days.. Got a 140mi trip coming up sunday...

 

Yes, can't wait to see the results.

 

Hi Stereomind, save me going through all the posts again, have you got a flash arrester in there?

 

My uncle is an engineer and says diesel engines are around 45-50% efficient and also have more energy/gram compared to gasoline. Gas efficiency is about 30%. He lost me on the explanation but said that higher compression means higher efficiency as well (?)

The 9% figure seems really low, maybe my KZ750 was that poor, it had leaky carbs.

 

So if you suck amps off the battery, and you charged the battery off of solar, would that help the efficiency of the whole scenario?

I think burning diesel to make steam pressure would be efficient as well. Steam can then drive some pistons for a while and the fuel system can shut off for a spell. Plus you can have a steam whistle. They are cool.

 

Only thing is when the people on the train want off then you will loose time as well as energy restarting...................

Jeez I just want to know that someone credible is testing this thing and will give us an accurate rundown of the pros and cons when they are done.

Sometimes the answer is right under our nose until we find it.

SOOOO I'll go back to picking

 

Wizard - I don't have a flash arrestor yet, although they're available on ebay for about 9 bucks. This car has never backfired, so I'm ok for a couple of days...

The results from yesterday's trip are not mind-boggling, but I gained about 4-5 mpg on the highway (25mpg total). That's not unheard of with Crown Vics, but this car has almost 200K miles on the clock, 3 bad O2 sensors, and a clogged DPFE circuit.

Part of the problem is that modern EFI systems will adjust the mixture once they detect a lean condition... A lot of Fords do not have a MAP sensor so they're not easily fooled to go lean, so I'll have to find a way to lean it out by some other means..

 

Spinalator- - you make me do research !
OK, maybe not 9% , but it seems 20 % efficiency pops up alot for "regular car" engines , and I retract my 5% estimate for performance bikes- - for now. . .

http://pesn.com/2006/05/02/9500266_Gun_Engine/

This guy didn't fully explain exactly how it worked
I also found a coating 50 times slipperier than Teflon !!!
Teflon is as slippery as wet ice on wet ice.
That would make a great piston skirt coating, cam lobes, valve stems.

 

Steromind, thanks for the update, glad to see you are doing some data gathering.

 

Here's a few sites to check out some products
https://paydotcom.com/r/48199/reelop19/19876006/
https://paydotcom.com/r/55737/reelop19/19876058/
https://paydotcom.com/r/52727/reelop19/19876065/
https://paydotcom.com/r/59906/reelop19/19876069/
https://paydotcom.com/r/56666/reelop19/19876073/
https://paydotcom.com/r/53261/reelop19/19876082/
https://paydotcom.com/r/55126/reelop19/19876091/
https://paydotcom.com/r/53691/reelop19/19876100/
https://paydotcom.com/r/55822/reelop19/19876107/
https://paydotcom.com/r/57433/reelop19/19876113/
https://paydotcom.com/r/55315/reelop19/19876120/
https://paydotcom.com/r/58472/reelop19/19876129/

 

5 mpg for adding $50 worth of parts, I'll take it.
My '83 buick gets 14 mpg that would put it at 19 mpg, better then most new trucks.
That's 110 more miles on a tank full.
I'm building one as soon as I'm on my feet again.
Keep the info coming Stereo.
Thanks.

 

I hope we are still off topic. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSHZhgra ... re=related

We will be reduced to this, as a luxury car, if things get any worse. . .

 

that thing scoots!


looks kinda fun... I wonder what he's using for brakes....

 

165cc that's a 6HP.
My go kart has a 6 horse it will do 30mph.
It looks like steering is acomplished by a bar rubbing against the tires.
I would imagine braking is acomplished the same way.

 

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

anyone else building one yet, or the drop in gas prices recently lure everyone into a false sense of security?

 

I got my new cell built, but wiped out my power supply when I hooked up to it. I ordered some new parts from China and I'm told they're in at the post office. Unfortunately, I'll be away until Thursday, so further testing will have to wait ‘til after I'm back. What I did observe, before my power supply went up in smoke, seemed promising. We'll see soon enough.

 

Always take your Honda Powered, motorized wheelchair out for high-speed testing and pushing-it through the back-country twisties when its snowing out!

 

thats nuckin futs!!! i thought about slapping a 3.5hp briggs onto a tricycle once!!!

 

Wanna see a really cool one, watch the movie Silver Bullet with Corey Haim. He has a really good one.

 

Is it really worth sitting through a Corey Haim move for??