1. Hello Guest. You have limited privileges and you can't "SEARCH" the forums. Please "Log In" or "Sign Up" for additional functionality. Click HERE to proceed.

Seca650 No spark

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by MrSeca, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. MrSeca

    MrSeca Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I know a guy who rides either a Maxim550 or a Seca550. Not sure. Anyway, would the relays be the same? If so I can maybe ask him if I could try his relays on my bike and see if it works. Yes?
     
  2. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,852
    Likes Received:
    723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    North, FL
    A short is electrical speak for near zero ohms, much like you were testing continuity on a piece of wire. Closed relay contacts should ohm out as a "short" or near zero ohms. The term "short" is often misused to describe electrical faults in reference to opens or other anomalies. A wire that is chaffed and touching ground would be a "short" causing an electrical failure. A wire that is broken or is faulty because of poor contact would be an "open" causing an electrical failure.

    Meters vary a bit so that could be OK - it is just testing the diode though so it doesn't mean the relay is good.

    Could be the ignition switch or dirty contacts or connectors or even a faulty bulb - the vibration of the motor running might cure an intermittent open like that momentarily. Inspect the bulbs and sockets and any connectors for corrosion and clean as required. It's also worth noting that restoring one of these old bikes should include inspection / cleaning of all the electrical connectors - the most common failures being the fuse box and the AC Generator 3 terminal connector. Adding dielectric grease is recommended after cleaning.

    If the wiring diagram is correct the meter lights will only illuminate when the head light relay is bypassed or you have a working head light relay.

    Relays are the same, just make sure they go to the correct location. If the main harness has not been altered, Yamaha marked the harnesses with the corresponding color of the relay dot with vinyl tape so the colors could be matched making it somewhat "Murphy Proof." Blue on harness, blue dot relay, yellow on harness, yellow dot on relay. The exception is the starter cutoff relay, which has no color matching. If the colored vinyl tape is missing, and the location of the relay is suspect, then the next go to solution is to verify the wire colors and match that to the wiring diagram.
     
  3. MrSeca

    MrSeca Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I have some great news and some not so great news. The good news is that when I swapped the relays from a working bike both the headlight and side stand worked!!!! I even plugged in the B/W wire into the TCI unit and the bike still fired up with the new side stand relay. I checked the diodes on the borrowed headlight relay and it read 459 if that interests anyone. Only one of the meter lights turned on so I suspect the other light did not work on account of a bad bulb. I'm starting to see the light. No pun intended.

    Now the bad news and it concerns the tail light not working. Before I swapped the relays I was experimenting with the HEADLIGHT relay main harness by bypassing it again. While doing so I fried the fuse. It's a little hard to explain what happened but basically the jumper cable I rigged up accidentally hit the chassis and for some reason or another it caused the fuse to blow. I could hear it easily...almost like a bit of oil on a frying pan sizzling. So, I changed the fuse and everything was fine. The reason I mention this is because yesterday I heard a similar sound but I could not detect where it came from. Next thing I know the tail light isn't working. I have no idea how it happened or what I was doing at the time I just remember sitting on the left side of the bike doing 'something' but can't remember what. Anybody have any ideas what might have happened?

    BTW, I only swapped the headlight and side stand relay. I couldn't find the others on his Seca 550.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  4. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    6,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The City of Seven Hills
    There is a bundle of wires that run along the frame under the seat to feed the rear signals and taillight. Look for worn-through insulation. The seat normally won't come anywhere near the wires, but..prior owners have a way of making things happen.
     
  5. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,852
    Likes Received:
    723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    North, FL
    A good suggestion to check the wires under the seat for pinched / chaffed wires. Another thought is just a poor connection somewhere along the path that creates and air gap resulting in a spark that causes an audible sound. The sparking results in oxidation, which ultimately causes the circuit to open. It's similar to a defective wall switch in the house that makes a crackling sound when the switch fails to make good contact. The most likely suspect on the bike would be the bulb socket as they are prone to corrosion.
     
    MrSeca likes this.
  6. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,852
    Likes Received:
    723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    North, FL
    Would like verification on the back lights to be sure. Per the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual the back lights for the XJ650 Seca and the XJ650 Maxim the back lights are connected to the output of the head light relay. Are the prints incorrect? I am thinking MrSeca is saying his back light did not illuminate until he installed a working head light relay.
     
  7. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    13,199
    Likes Received:
    3,854
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Great North Woods
    tail light comes on when key is turned on according to wiring diagram and meter lights come on with headlight relay. charging my battery so I will check real life tomorrow.
    XJ650 Seca and the XJ650 Maxim
     
  8. MrSeca

    MrSeca Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    The light does in fact turn on when the key is simply turned. The tail light decided to work again. After the bike had been running in neutralfor about a minute the tail light suddenly turned on. It must be some loose connection. Now, I have a tail light again so I double checked it and turned the key on then off and the tail light did the exact same. Bad relays turned out to be the root of the problem to all electrical problems.

    I am currently using electrolysis to clean the tank. Does anybody have any experience using this method to clean a gas tank?
     
  9. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    13,199
    Likes Received:
    3,854
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Great North Woods
    confirmed tail light comes on with key meter back lights come on with head light
     
    MrSeca and Rooster53 like this.
  10. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    13,199
    Likes Received:
    3,854
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Great North Woods
    you can use washing soda to fill tank with. arm&hammer makes it it should be in the detergent isle of your store
     
    k-moe likes this.
  11. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    6,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The City of Seven Hills
    I've ued electrolysis on several items over the years. One of the advantages is has is it will remove the paint from anywhere that rust has formed under the paint edges. You'll need to check the anode periodically to wipe the rust off of it, and bend it so that it reaches as far back into the tank as you can.

    This writeup is user-friendly if you haven't used the method before.
    electrol.asp

    I've recently moved on to using Evaporust or phosphoric acid when dealing with fuel tanks (which I use depends on how rusty, and how flaky the rust is). There's less setup, and I don't need a container to put the tank into.
     
    MrSeca likes this.
  12. MrSeca

    MrSeca Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I'm curious why it's important for the anode to go as far back into the tank as possible. I've read that you can periodically move the negative lead from the charger on to different parts of the tank and that can get to all the different areas that rust may have formed. I also don't know what you're suppose to do immediately after you're finished to prevent flash rust although I heard you can spray WD40 in there and be okay. Is sealing the tank mandatory? I only had one pinhole leak in the tank which I covered using JB Weld and I'm good with that.

    I just finished rebuilding the master cylinder and once this tank is finished I can start going for a few test drives. Getting close.
     
  13. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    6,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The City of Seven Hills
    You could ust move the positive lead arouns if the outer paint on the tank is not in good enough condition to save, but if it is good you don't want to be scraping it off to hook the negative lead to.

    I finish with a water rinse, followed up with a phoshoric acid rinse after it flash rusts. You get an inexpensive rust-preventative coating that way.
    JB Weld won't hold up forever. If you can braze or solder the pinhole closed that would be preferable (soldering is easier on the paint). Lining is a good preventative step since there are seams in the tank that will hold condensation, and eventually rust out. That is entirely a judgment call though.
     
  14. MrSeca

    MrSeca Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Does anybody know how to properly remove the front brake light switch. I put it in the master cylinder and now I want to take it out but it sure doesn't come out as easily as it went in. I don't want to break it either. Thanks guys.
     
  15. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    6,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The City of Seven Hills
    On the underside of the lever perch you'll see a tiny hole. Put a paperclip in and the holding tab for the switch will depress.
     
  16. MrSeca

    MrSeca Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Thaaaaaank. Yoooooooou. I about had a heart attack trying to figure it out.
     
    k-moe likes this.
  17. MrSeca

    MrSeca Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Could anybody recommend a good generic grease you can buy at Autozone or any parts shop? I want to put grease in my tach and clutch lines but also use it for the break caliper. Is there a one size fits all product or would I have to use two different products here? Lowes sells a silicone grease by Danco and I'm wondering if that would do the trick for most grease needing situations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  18. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    6,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The City of Seven Hills
    Short answer is no.
    Brakes need high-temp. high moly content grease (and only a tiny amount on the caliper pins). You can use moly in the speedo cable (but ther eare other/better choices), but the clutch cable needs a thinner lubricant meant for control cables.
     
  19. MrSeca

    MrSeca Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Got it. Could you recommend a few products for both categories?
     
  20. MrSeca

    MrSeca Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Could you recommend a few places where to buy the phosphoric acid?
    BTW, I've been doing electrolysis with my tank for the last week and rust is still forming on the anode but it's not nearly as much as the the first few days. Should I continue until no more rust?
     

Share This Page