Water in Engine

If you have an alternate fuel source, you MUST cap all 4 vacuum ports. Otherwise, you have SERIOUS vacuum leak on the cylinder!!! Lol

I keep a couple extra caps in my shim pool boxes, and a couple in my carbtune kit, and in my colortune box.

I also have about 20 more, if you need one, I'll send one to you. Pm me if you wish

 

I think I've got some caps that will suffice, geez I never thought it would make a difference.

 

Nope, made absolutely no difference to cap that port.

 

i'll just throw some stuff out, take whatever you want.
a compression test will tell if the cam chain jumped a tooth on the install.
after trying to start it the plugs are wet or dry
if the idle is set too high the enrichment has little effect
you can get a "almost" good sync just cranking the engine
it gives a good stream of gas from the bowl drains, more than one bowls worth
i like new plugs or plugs i know work
motors running out of gas usually race because their running lean
keep a charger on the battery so it can share the abuse

 

A leakdown test was performed on the engine prior to my purchasing it.
Haven't checked the plugs, although I did buy new ones and gapped them before I put them in
Have adjusted the idle in and out to no avail
Been keeping a battery tender on it since I got the new battery.

 

Then yeah, pull the plugs and look to see if there's spark on all 4.

I may need to go waaay back and read all the way through the build again and see what might have been missed.

dave

 

Spark was confirmed on all four plugs. I even trimmed back the cables a quarter inch or so to ensure a good contact with the caps.

 

Ok, that's good

 

Enrichment circuit maybe. Imo there's a fuel delivery issue. The spark has nothing to ignite.

Gary H.

 

Let's go back to where you got it running w/ starter fluid.

Keep the seat, airbox lid, and filter off--can you get it running with starter fluid again, and keep it running with judicious suuirting of a fine stream of gas at the front of the carbs via the airbox? When I say fine stream, I mean a FINE stream. I like to use an old Fantastik spray bottle, or some type of sprayer that has the adjustable tip. Then I give just a little tiny squirt at the front of the carbs every couple seconds or so.

The whole reason for doing that is simply to see if it will run. If it runs, then you obviously have a fuel delivery issue.

If it settles in to running on its own after a couple minutes of doing that, it would point toward an enrichment clog yet, since you're basically doing it manually til the bike warms up enought to not need the enrichment. If it won't settle in, then its a bigger fuel delivery issue.

Double-check: put a hose from the petcock into a glass jar. Turn it to PRI. Does fuel freely flood into the jar? Good.
Now, set it on RUN and in neutral, press the Start button and let the engine turn over for a bit. Does fuel run now? If it does, good. If not, you're petcock may be the issue.

As far as in the carbs.......turn the petcock to PRI and let it alone to fill the carbs for about 1 minute before trying to start. Now, try and let me know what happens.

If there's still nothing, I'm wondering if you have something clogging the fuel inlet "T" in the rack itself. Other thoughts are that you may have some needles sticking shut after you did your initial bench stuff..........

I backed up in the forum to where you had put the carbs back on, and were able to to get it running once on the ether.......

Dave F

 

Oh my, Dave, don't spray gas in a air cleaner on a un proven engine, a back fire would be real bad.

 

Ok Hog, as I have not finished with the fuel tank I am still using an old gas tank from a go kart with a simple open/close fuel tap. I have it mounted on a shelf above the bike so a good gravity feed is present. When the fuel line is open from the tank, gas flows freely (I am using clear line so I can see it move). When I connect the fuel line from the tank to the fuel line attached to the carbs, gas flow stops. If I apply a vacuum to the overflow hoses on the carbs, I can draw gas down and into the bowls. I have opened all four drain screws and gas flows freely out of them so I have gas at the bowls. Now, with ether, it will rev up but won't last for very long. However if I spray some ether into the air box (without the filter) I can manage to keep it running for 20-30 seconds if I keep on the throttle, but it will still ultimately stall out. I have popped off the #1 carb lid and checked and the two jets beneath the diaphragm are in their correct holes. When I was putting the cleaned carbs back together I made sure that all four were identical in terms of jet locations based on how they were taken apart, but I have not ruled out the possibility of a PO having moved shit around. Now, I keep hoping it will just magically fix itself and I hit the starter from time to time, and when it doesn't change I stop for the night. If I allow the bike to sit overnight and try again the next day, the bike with often start and idle for just a few tantalizing seconds, but then will die out. After that, it may sputter occasionally, but not start.

Experience tells me that this is fuel delivery problem. I have not had enough time at home lately to spend more than a few minutes to try simple stuff, so I have not been able to pull the plugs and see if they are wet after trying to start it. I had hoped that the vacuum port woud be the simple solution, but no such luck. Considering that with some assistance it will start and kind of run, and run smoothly (no missing cylinder) I almost have to think fuel. Spark is present on all four plugs when I tested the coils. Its a weak spark in my opinion, but from what I have read the spark isn't particularly robust to begin with.

If I haven't said it before, I greatly appreciate all the help.

 

Upside down floats ?

 

Right side up.

 

Depleted dilithium crystals ?

 

Imo with good spark, no air leaks, good connections all around and good fuel it should start and stay running using the choke. Are you for certain the mix screws are stock? The tip is longer on some aftermarket screws. I'd open those screws 1/8th, petcock on prime, choke open full, hit the button. If it tries to start then dies go to half choke and hit the button. If it still won't start go back to full choke, wait about 10 seconds then hit the button. If enough fuel is getting past the mix tips it should start. If it doesn't start pull the screws and make certain the orientation of the spring, washer and o-ring is correct. Hope this help.

Gary H.

 

Personally,I've never had any problem doing that....or with sleds, either, and I've even ridden sled around the field that way. Regardless, ymmv. I personally am more afraid when using starter fluid than gas. But that's me. I did have one airbox catch fire last winter, but that was with ether --- a bucket of water and a shovel of snow stopped it. Pulled the carbs and released, sled was fine- rode it the rest of the season too

 

Crap crap crap! I managed to bugger up the mixture screw on my #3 carb. Try as I could to get it out, it is wasted, as is the port in the carb body itself. So it looks like I need a replacement carb. I posted up a want ad in the classifieds, as well.
However the other three came out very easily, but dammit #3 was just stuck like Chuck. I gently drilled the caps out, ran in a small drywall screw and out popped the caps. Unfortunately the screw drove too deep on #3 because the mixture screw head itself had a flat spot on it. I know what you are thinking, but I have done this before and I soft handed the drill bit into the cap until it just popped through. Anyway, I was unable to grab the remaining half of the slot, so I center punched and drilled it, and jammed a screw extractor in. Brass was too soft, screw extractor just drill itself deeper and tore the brass apart, ultimately poking just a bit through the port in the mouth of the carb and flattening the threads inside the hole.
Sigh.

 

Oh f^ckity - dashed poor luck. Sort of thing that would happen to me.. Hope you get it sorted soon

James

 

You'll get it sorted.

Gary H.

 

Found a replacement bank of carbs for $75, now I get to break my finely done rack apart, clean and rebuild the one carb I need from the spare rack, hook it up, wet set all over again and reinstall on the bike. Remember kids, brass is soft and doesn't take abuse!

 

Soon you'll be pretty good at it, with all that practice!!! That how WE learned

 

Oh this is killing me! Got the replacement carbs, broke loose the one I need, popped out the brass cap, sprayed cleaner in there to make sure there wasn't any brass swarf to mess up the threads, and the damn mixture screw is bound up on something. And sure enough the goddammed slot head broke up. I am taking this to a machine shop, I am not going to screw up another carb.

 

I know the carb bodies are slightly different, can any of the other ones be swapped in for #3? I have an entire rack, and I would be installing the cleaned internal parts from my original set (throttle shaft & plate, jets, slide, etc.) and I am not opposed to using on of the other ones. This is not the Cali specific carb. I am just too frustrated to go and look at the stupid thing right now.

 

i believe #2 and #3 are identical. they just have different throttle bits.

CN

 

From looking at it, none are the same, but #1 would be the easiest to adapt as I would only have to drill out the fuel passage on the left side (looking from behind the engine).

 

Things are looking better now. I set these carbs down and walked away for a few days, took care of a few honey-doos, got the flu, got over the flu, got off work early this afternoon and decided on a new tack. Previously, I had tried a spiral style screw extractor which, as I stated, shredded the brass rather than grabbing it. I didn't want to do the same thing to the replacement carb, so I sought out a square-style extractor in the hopes that its corners would grab and turn the brass rather than tear it apart. I'll be dammed if it worked! Took a 1/8" drill bit and put a shallow hole in the top, gently tapped the extractor in and out it came. Snapped the mix screw in half but it was wasted anyway.



So now I finally have an empty spare #3 carb, plus a good hook in case any of the mix screws in the other three carbs (on the spare rack) bind up. Its filthy, but that can be dealt with easily.



Since I went to went much trouble to clean up the internals and hat on the original one, I am planning to just clean this up, break the original rack and swap everything over to this body and install/align into the rack. Probably won't even use this float bowl as I already have the new drain screw in the other one. I will need to replace all four mix screw o-rings just for good measure, and of course re-kajigger the float settings, but hey it's only time, right?

Fact is, considering how well the square tapered extractor worked, I am thinking on getting one the next size up and seeing if it will grab the remains of the mix screw from the original carb. Maybe I can save it, and have a complete spare rack!

 

Good news, plus tips on this are always helpful. Like most folk I've had poor experience with the left-handed spirals so another
option is great.

PS Well impressed by your sustained enthusiasm. The profit of age I believe..

 

Thanks, I have a long history of 3/4 finished projects, and in fact cleared out a few of them prior to beginning on this bike. I promised myself and the Wife that I would make a more concerted effort to see this bike through to the end. I spent a good bit of time at the beginning sorting my tool chests and clearing my workbench as well as a means of keeping me from getting frustrated at the clutter. Unfortunately that plan went awry when I started in on a rebuild project for a gas powered saw. Luckily it's pretty easy to tell the difference between German saw parts and Japanese motorcycle parts.

 

I'm not out of this fight yet, but what with the holidays, vacation time, and needing to rebuild a demolition saw for work this project has been pushed to the back of the workbench until sometime in January. I cleaned up the spare carb and got the mixture screw out, so my next step is to order replacement o-rings for all four mix screws, swap everything over to the replacement carb, probably will buy the proper float measuring tube from Len and double/triple wet-check float levels, then back onto the bike. After that, its wheels/brakes/suspension on the rear end, followed by the same on the front. Should be a springtime rider.