Seca650 No spark

I know a guy who rides either a Maxim550 or a Seca550. Not sure. Anyway, would the relays be the same? If so I can maybe ask him if I could try his relays on my bike and see if it works. Yes?

 

A short is electrical speak for near zero ohms, much like you were testing continuity on a piece of wire. Closed relay contacts should ohm out as a "short" or near zero ohms. The term "short" is often misused to describe electrical faults in reference to opens or other anomalies. A wire that is chaffed and touching ground would be a "short" causing an electrical failure. A wire that is broken or is faulty because of poor contact would be an "open" causing an electrical failure.

Meters vary a bit so that could be OK - it is just testing the diode though so it doesn't mean the relay is good.

Could be the ignition switch or dirty contacts or connectors or even a faulty bulb - the vibration of the motor running might cure an intermittent open like that momentarily. Inspect the bulbs and sockets and any connectors for corrosion and clean as required. It's also worth noting that restoring one of these old bikes should include inspection / cleaning of all the electrical connectors - the most common failures being the fuse box and the AC Generator 3 terminal connector. Adding dielectric grease is recommended after cleaning.

If the wiring diagram is correct the meter lights will only illuminate when the head light relay is bypassed or you have a working head light relay.

Relays are the same, just make sure they go to the correct location. If the main harness has not been altered, Yamaha marked the harnesses with the corresponding color of the relay dot with vinyl tape so the colors could be matched making it somewhat "Murphy Proof." Blue on harness, blue dot relay, yellow on harness, yellow dot on relay. The exception is the starter cutoff relay, which has no color matching. If the colored vinyl tape is missing, and the location of the relay is suspect, then the next go to solution is to verify the wire colors and match that to the wiring diagram.

 

I have some great news and some not so great news. The good news is that when I swapped the relays from a working bike both the headlight and side stand worked!!!! I even plugged in the B/W wire into the TCI unit and the bike still fired up with the new side stand relay. I checked the diodes on the borrowed headlight relay and it read 459 if that interests anyone. Only one of the meter lights turned on so I suspect the other light did not work on account of a bad bulb. I'm starting to see the light. No pun intended.

Now the bad news and it concerns the tail light not working. Before I swapped the relays I was experimenting with the HEADLIGHT relay main harness by bypassing it again. While doing so I fried the fuse. It's a little hard to explain what happened but basically the jumper cable I rigged up accidentally hit the chassis and for some reason or another it caused the fuse to blow. I could hear it easily...almost like a bit of oil on a frying pan sizzling. So, I changed the fuse and everything was fine. The reason I mention this is because yesterday I heard a similar sound but I could not detect where it came from. Next thing I know the tail light isn't working. I have no idea how it happened or what I was doing at the time I just remember sitting on the left side of the bike doing 'something' but can't remember what. Anybody have any ideas what might have happened?

BTW, I only swapped the headlight and side stand relay. I couldn't find the others on his Seca 550.

 

There is a bundle of wires that run along the frame under the seat to feed the rear signals and taillight. Look for worn-through insulation. The seat normally won't come anywhere near the wires, but..prior owners have a way of making things happen.

 

A good suggestion to check the wires under the seat for pinched / chaffed wires. Another thought is just a poor connection somewhere along the path that creates and air gap resulting in a spark that causes an audible sound. The sparking results in oxidation, which ultimately causes the circuit to open. It's similar to a defective wall switch in the house that makes a crackling sound when the switch fails to make good contact. The most likely suspect on the bike would be the bulb socket as they are prone to corrosion.

 

Would like verification on the back lights to be sure. Per the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual the back lights for the XJ650 Seca and the XJ650 Maxim the back lights are connected to the output of the head light relay. Are the prints incorrect? I am thinking MrSeca is saying his back light did not illuminate until he installed a working head light relay.

 

tail light comes on when key is turned on according to wiring diagram and meter lights come on with headlight relay. charging my battery so I will check real life tomorrow.
XJ650 Seca and the XJ650 Maxim

 

The light does in fact turn on when the key is simply turned. The tail light decided to work again. After the bike had been running in neutralfor about a minute the tail light suddenly turned on. It must be some loose connection. Now, I have a tail light again so I double checked it and turned the key on then off and the tail light did the exact same. Bad relays turned out to be the root of the problem to all electrical problems.

I am currently using electrolysis to clean the tank. Does anybody have any experience using this method to clean a gas tank?

 

confirmed tail light comes on with key meter back lights come on with head light

 

you can use washing soda to fill tank with. arm&hammer makes it it should be in the detergent isle of your store

 

I've ued electrolysis on several items over the years. One of the advantages is has is it will remove the paint from anywhere that rust has formed under the paint edges. You'll need to check the anode periodically to wipe the rust off of it, and bend it so that it reaches as far back into the tank as you can.

This writeup is user-friendly if you haven't used the method before.
electrol.asp

I've recently moved on to using Evaporust or phosphoric acid when dealing with fuel tanks (which I use depends on how rusty, and how flaky the rust is). There's less setup, and I don't need a container to put the tank into.

 

I'm curious why it's important for the anode to go as far back into the tank as possible. I've read that you can periodically move the negative lead from the charger on to different parts of the tank and that can get to all the different areas that rust may have formed. I also don't know what you're suppose to do immediately after you're finished to prevent flash rust although I heard you can spray WD40 in there and be okay. Is sealing the tank mandatory? I only had one pinhole leak in the tank which I covered using JB Weld and I'm good with that.

I just finished rebuilding the master cylinder and once this tank is finished I can start going for a few test drives. Getting close.

 

You could ust move the positive lead arouns if the outer paint on the tank is not in good enough condition to save, but if it is good you don't want to be scraping it off to hook the negative lead to.

I finish with a water rinse, followed up with a phoshoric acid rinse after it flash rusts. You get an inexpensive rust-preventative coating that way.
JB Weld won't hold up forever. If you can braze or solder the pinhole closed that would be preferable (soldering is easier on the paint). Lining is a good preventative step since there are seams in the tank that will hold condensation, and eventually rust out. That is entirely a judgment call though.

 

Does anybody know how to properly remove the front brake light switch. I put it in the master cylinder and now I want to take it out but it sure doesn't come out as easily as it went in. I don't want to break it either. Thanks guys.

 

On the underside of the lever perch you'll see a tiny hole. Put a paperclip in and the holding tab for the switch will depress.

 

Thaaaaaank. Yoooooooou. I about had a heart attack trying to figure it out.

 

Could anybody recommend a good generic grease you can buy at Autozone or any parts shop? I want to put grease in my tach and clutch lines but also use it for the break caliper. Is there a one size fits all product or would I have to use two different products here? Lowes sells a silicone grease by Danco and I'm wondering if that would do the trick for most grease needing situations.

 

Short answer is no.
Brakes need high-temp. high moly content grease (and only a tiny amount on the caliper pins). You can use moly in the speedo cable (but ther eare other/better choices), but the clutch cable needs a thinner lubricant meant for control cables.

 

Got it. Could you recommend a few products for both categories?

 

Could you recommend a few places where to buy the phosphoric acid?
BTW, I've been doing electrolysis with my tank for the last week and rust is still forming on the anode but it's not nearly as much as the the first few days. Should I continue until no more rust?

 

Any farm supply store will have Ospho brand, which is a bit better to use if you aren't goiing to paint over the treatment (and you won't), as it leaves an additional protective coating.
Any store that sells pool supplies will have Phosphoric acid.

I'd keep it in the solution until you see just a light coat of rust on the annode. The acid rinse will take care of what't left.

 

I'm having a bit of a struggle with the brake calipers. I took everything apart because the piston was seized. I cleaned all the parts up now I just have to put it all back together and it's not as easy as I thought. I couldn't find any tutorials regarding brake caliper assembly but maybe I missed something? The only one I found had all the pictures missing. Can anybody point me in that direction?

I'm also curious about the dust boots that go around the piston. They are held on with a thin hoop ring. One of mine are in bad shape and I'm wondering if this is one of those parts I could forego. I've never seen one of these boots on a caliper piston before and my friends Seca 550 doesn't have any kind of dust cover boot around the piston. Thoughts?

 

Brakes are really important - you should be replacing all the rubber on both calipers as well as replacing the old brake lines and rebuilding the master cylinder. The kits for the calipers should contain the dust boots / clips and they need to be there to keep dirt and water away from the piston / seal. Some calipers do not use the dust boots, but instead have an internal seal - like your friends XJ550.

This is a good link to the XJ700 caliper and master cylinder rebuild - the calipers are different but it has some good tips on what should be done to complete the rebuild.

https://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/1985-86-xj700-caliper-rebuild.118121/

 

Thank you very very much.

 

Could anyone tell me the torque specs for the caliper slide pin bolts on the brake calipers. I can't seem to find a torque spec anywhere.

 

oops toggled to wrong manual

 

^ That's the Maxim 650 caliper. ^

IIRC the Seca slide pins are 8mm, so 13 - 18 ft lbs.

 

I'm having problem bleeding my brakes. Brakes won't pressure up. I took apart the calipers and cleaned them up. I didn't replace anything yet I just put them all back together. I wanted to try my luck to see if everything worked before buying new parts. The brake lines were clogged up so I sprayed carb cleaner and ran a guitar string through them and they're clear as a bell now. I put everything back together and the fluid made its way down the line and even pushed out one of the pistons but the second one has yet to come out but there is not an ounce of pressure on the brake lever. There was initially leakage coming out of the banjo bolts at the calipers but I tightened them up and now they're are no leaks. Each banjo bolt has the two copper washers surrounding it. I did have to buy one copper washer and it's a tiny bit thicker then the ones that came with the bike. I put that one on the banjo bolt at the master cylinder. Any ideas on how to fix this?

 

Never mind guys. I figured it out. I simply kept on adjusting the breather valve until actual fluid came out (I had a straw connected to it). I felt like I had to do this kind of blindly a couple of times because nothing was coming out at first. In other words there was just a ton of air in the lines and it just took a while for it to come out.

My next concern is the drag on the brakes. As I understand it the wheel should feel free to turn but you might here the rotors against the brake pads. Mine are dragging to the point that it's stopping the wheel. How do I adjust this?

 

you have to rebuild the calipers and mastercylinder and replace hoses all the crap from hose is in calipers and will continue to come out of the brake hoses.
also do rear brakes.
this is required every 4 years. a bike that will not stop or stops unexpectedly is a death trap.

 

The copper washers are crush washers. They can only be reused if you anneal them. If they are previously-used and not annealed they will not seal, and they HAVE to seal.

Have you throughly read through The Information Overload Hour, including the articles linked therein?

 

about your hoses
Why You NEED TO REPLACE Original brake lines w/pics

caliper and MC
Why you need to rebuild your caliper and M/C w/pics

rear brakes
SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a look

 

I'm starting to get cold feet about whether to seal the gas tank or not. I only have one pinhole as far as leaks go and I feel like I'm doing a pretty good job getting all the rust out. I heard it can be a nightmare if the sealant option goes wrong and I've never done this before and there's no second chances if you use a sealant. This is probably a judgement call more than anything but if there's any words of wisdom someone can share on this subject that would be appreciated.

For those of you who do recommend sealing the tank could you recommend to me a couple of the brands worth using? Thanks

 

Caswell or POR-15.

 

Hey K-moe, dude, the Phosphoric acid was key. Cleaned the !@%^ out of everything. I actually gave it a warm water rinse after ward then sprayed the heck out of it with WD40. It still tended to flash rust a bit but I decided to use Caswell sealer. My question is, do I need to remove the WD40 before sealing it with the Caswell (which comes in a few days) or is the tank ready to go?

 

yes you will have to remove wd40

Application Instructions
All traces of oil and gasoline should first be removed by pouring about 1 pint of acetone or lacquer thinner into the tank, and rotating the tank several times to thoroughly sluice the sides with solvent. Dispose of the contaminated solution.

WD-40's main ingredients as supplied in aerosol cans, according to U.S. Material Safety Data Sheet information, are: 50% "aliphatic hydrocarbons". <25% petroleum base oil. 12–18% low vapor pressure aliphatic hydrocarbon. 2–3% carbon dioxide. <10% inert ingredients.

 

Love to see some pics of your tank process. I have done a few and I always get mixed results. It works but I have seen them peal to with the ethanol gas we have down here in the states. If you have pin holes you really have no option unless you get another tank. Just make sure you are all ready, area to do the tank and are you ready for all the tank swishing Good ventilation to for it to dry and cure. PICS pls.

 

He is using an epoxy liner. None of the concerns you listed are a problem for that type of liner. Ethanol does not attack the epoxy. Pinholes get taped over before the pour. Once the epoxy cures it becomes the fuel tank. You can think of th original tank as essentially being a form and support for the new epoxy tank.

The key is preperation. if the inside of the tank is noi oil-free the epoxy willl not adhere to it.

 

I wish I could show you some before pics but this is what I have after doing an Apple Cider Vinegar wash followed by a week of electrolysis and finally threw some Phosphoric Acid in there. Darn thing flash rusted though so it doesn't look as good as after I emptied the acid in there. As you can see a puddle of WD40 is at the bottom. Will send pics after the liner is put in.

 

I'm wondering if I should do one more Phosphoric Acid wash to get the WD40 out of there or should I just use the prescribed Acetone and/or laquer thinner. Will either the Phosphoric Acid or acetone/laquer thinner dry on it's own?

 

Phosphoric acid will not remove oil. Use your choice of the prescribed solvents.
Acetone and laquer thinner are both volatile, and will evaporate quickly after the rinse.
Flash rust is not an issue. The epoxy will bond to it, and prevent more oxidation from occuring.

 

Looks good though and i can't see any heavy pitting. What ever you did seems to have gotten the majority out. Always have to put a inline fuel filter in with these older bikes. We spend way too much time one the carbs not to have a good fuel filter in there to help us keep them clean.

 

The Caswell should be coming in the mail any day now but I have the next big hurdle to get over.

I bought this bike with no title and it actually wasn't in the system either. No records. I know I probably should've avoided this bike like the devil but the offer was too good to pass up. I went to DMV and after a few questions and paperwork it is now in the DMV system but I must go to a CHP office to get it vin verified. Ugh! The next appointment is 2 months away. Jeeze! Just wondering if anybody could give me some tips on going through this process. It seems easy enough but I was hoping I could ride it sooner then later. Any ideas on how to expedite this process? Besides the paper work given to me by the DMV is there anything else I should know?

 

can a dealership verify the vin? or inspection station

you could try to register it in VT as a non resident through the mail they require a vin check of the number y any law enforcement office or inspection station/dealership.

VT might not be doing this any more could not find any info on it on the web site

 

I had to do something similar and didn't need a appointment, I just took the paper work in and had the officer verify the VIN. He also wanted to make sure it was road worth and had me turn the key on to check all the lights and horn. After that he signed it and put his badge number on the paper work. After that mailed it in and I was fine. I guess what I am saying it you should not need a appointment just to into the local police and have them call one of the police in the bldg in and inspect the bike.

 

some states the vin check is just that a vin number visual inspection in other states a vin check includes running the vin to see if bike is stolen if stolen they take thee bike/car

 

Can't they do that this way?
https://www.nicb.org/vincheck
As long as it is reported as stolen then it would be in there. For me in Wisconsin you have to prove "chain of ownership" if someone title skips here and you don't have the history of the bike, they make you get a s seruty bond or title bond.

 

Cali needs something for its CHiP officers to do beside make tv shows. it is likely a Union thing you would think the dmv could do it too.
I can get my vin checks at Inspection stations Police department or dealership but my vin check is just a visual to confirm it is there and correct

 

It's not a Union thing, or a make-work scheme. Cali is (and has been for a long time) a hotbed for chop shops and shipping stolen parts overseas.
Their VIN check is more stringent for good reason.